Why did you choose always to do something that no one is doing? There's nothing else. It was a trade license and me only. These two things you need to keep your integrity intact. That's that your reputation is really your capital. You've done very strong decisions and I honestly don't understand but I need an explanation from you. We follow Emirati investments. Overcalculating will lead you nowhere. you started to talk about like entrepreneurs now and of course the whole country was divided. Some people think oh how you are defending this guy this is our national company it's a lot it was it's a lot what's your take on lawyers penetrating the social media the whole game shifted from courts to media to media we cannot be the previous firm market has changed the market's view of us has changed we are either going to be a new firm with completely different mentality or we are going to fail [Music] Welcome back to a new episode with The Jurist. Today we have an iconic lawyer, one of the biggest names in the legal field in United Arab Emirates and very soon I guess we will say this worldwide because you're going really global very soon and I think Dr. Hhabib al- Mulla is not someone that we can introduce. We just mentioned the name and you know exactly what we're talking about. Very good morning and thank you very much for being here with us today. Good morning Ahmed. Thank you for having me in this podcast. It's it's a pleasure and it's a it's and I thank you again not just for being here with us for accepting to do this podcast in English because our audience we have received your name as a request specifically and I know very well that we have a lot of uh non-Arabic speakers who would like to hear from you and we rely on AI for the translation. If someone wants to uh watch the podcast in Arabic and understand it, the AI can help you very much with the translation. But for the wider audience of the UAE and the whole Middle East, I know that a lot of people would like to have this podcast in English. So, thank you very much for accommodating our request. Thank you. How's your morning? Good. Yeah. Busy always. We offered you coffee and you said you don't like coffee. So, what's your drink? What's your morning drink? I'm a tea person. a tea person. I've always been a tea person. I remember once I was attending a Harvard alumni conference and it was in Rome and it was now they call it coffee break be it was called tea break before so I was on the line when I came guy asked me I said tea and there was an Italian guy behind me he said tea you are asking for tea and you're in Italy that's why I realized that shock is a big shock yeah but you have a specific kind of tea or you you you roam between different kinds. I roam between no difference. Although I have to admit recently with uh a trend I seeing especially from young generation trying coffee sometimes I do try coffee but it's not my drink. Okay. Okay. That's quite specific for a lawyer not to not to have coffee. You mentioned Harvard and how you realize that the tea is your drink at Harvard. I have a question here because specifically your generation and for a very long time the UK was the place where the education was very much promoted in the UAE not just in the UAE I guess all over the GCC region and and many of the Arab countries. Why did you choose Harvard and not go to Oxford or any of the UK um renowned names in the law? I think I wanted to try both. So I I did go to Cambridge for my PhD. But Harvard I think we are of a generation that came in between you know the previous generation as you said completely UK directed focused and then you had the new generation who are of course more toward USA. Yeah we were in between. So at that time US started to open. We're hearing about US Harvard of course is an iconic name. Uh and it was kind of a dream that no I I do want to go to Harvard. I want to study there. So that's was it. How was your experience? As expected, I have to admit after the first 3 months, I seriously was thinking of coming back, abandoning everything. Okay? You see, the problem is first of all, our legal system or of education is civil law, French law. That's common law, completely different. we were studying in Arabic study there is in English although my English was good but still plus the method of education and I think it's not a secret in our universities it all depends on how much you can memorize and I have my memory was good I I could memorize the whole book there it doesn't work like It's a completely different study. So I was trying to use the same technique. So I found that for example I was memorizing like 30 35 pages even before the lecture starts. Then I find that the professor has passed like 80 90 pages or maybe 100. I was not able to catch. I was saying something is wrong. this is not working until uh my roommate who did his uh bor studies in US he told me this is this is not going to work the the way you are doing it you need to study the way Americans study you you need to understand you need to look in the bigger concept look about different articles even outside the text book so when I did that and I think at that time if I'm not mistaken he also showed me that there were like handouts that the students prepare and buy and this then it started to work and was able to catch up but the first three months was very difficult very difficult when I was at the university at one of the professors he told me don't go directly to the US go and take a master's degree in India or one of the uh Malaysia, one of the common law countries, prepare yourselves for that. I said, why should I waste time? Let me go directly. And but I think he was right. Had I done this, I think it would have helped me a lot. But that probably made you much more ready for the work uh environment when you come back because after university where you study in this American style with the common law and so on, it made you more ready to engage in real time work. I want to bring you back to the UAE at that time and I will go with your memory to the moment you came back because you've been always a lawyer most of your time. Yeah, I guess all all of your life. Remember now the moment you came back and you started working. How did law firms at that time in the UAE look like and how did they run and because they're quite different than how it is done now. The majority of law firms at the time were either sle practitioners or partnerships between two and I remember some of them I mean iconic names for example you had at that time uh Jaffer Alwan of course uh Mustafa Rashid Harun was there also I mean those I would still consider them really a ge a generation that will not be repeated despite yes the growth we had today of course we have law firms we have partnerships uh proper law firms with many lawyers but that generation you sit with them for five or 10 minutes because the system at at the time there was what we call advocates room in the small court which was the Xman's polity building and we used to go to the hearings come back waiting for our uh next hearing uh drinking tea and you were discussing what happened in this case that case this principle that was I consider an institution of education by itself that room that room because the knowledge you you had all The masters, the gurus there, everyone was coming from Dalm, from Samir Jaffa, Ahmed, everyone was coming attending the hearings themselves at the time. And it was not like a role you had to go and wait. Basically, you take your file, go to the room and the judge will just bring your file, you finish, you come back to the lawyer's room or advocates room. So, every day there were discussions. I was really learning. What I learned in that room was much more of my whole educational pathway. It was really something that I think today is lost. I I remember very well discussions that I had. My father is a lawyer as well and he's he's from that generation and he told me that you could learn from the clerks at the court uh at the courts in in in Cairo so much and the the the secretary of the court you can learn so much from them that you cannot learn at at the university. So the the the practical side and sitting in that room because he spoke about it as well that the lawyer's room in every court uh in the morning and after the hearings are done or waiting for the the judgments to to be passed some lawyers gather there. This room you can exchange so much knowledge and that what actually developed later on into big communities for lawyers and so on. Yes. Why is it so different now? Why is it not happening at the moment? And because that's a lot of Yes. Although I mean it was not properly structured but it was in substance was very full of knowledge. Today the problem is that the system of the court has changed. Uh today is not that you as a lawyer you go and the judge immediately will call your file. You need to go in a court with a role. So you have to wait. Your role may be like 15. You have to wait there. You are you as a lawyer have no privilege. You are as any other uh claimant or defendant or respondent who is there. So lawyers don't go as much now to the lawyer. I've been once or twice there. It's almost empty. No one attends it. So I think what needs to be done is we need to find another way more structured way to make this knowledge that one generation has properly passed to the other generation. Time has changed. I think that room has fulfilled its objective. Today what we need is a different structured way for new generation of lawyers to benefit from the knowledge that the elderly or the elder lawyers have. And it's not that you will not find it in textbooks. You will not find a lecture. Of course, these are the tricks, the the the the the professional tricks and tips and what to do or what not to do and how to talk to to the judge or how to talk to the how to comment on a on a verdict and yes, these tricks I don't think you can learn at anywhere. It's not a textbook knowledge. So I guess the sense of community is very important in this profession and I think the more and more we we gather uh and and we have this community that of course irreplaceable exchange of knowledge. I will ask you about something completely different now because you've been contributing to the legal industry and your inputs have shaped the UAE. That's at least our opinion and we know a lot of people have mentioned this. um what piece of legislation that you think or you see that you have contributed in or you have had an input that helped the the legislation in the UAE to to develop uh and and how did it impact the UAE in general? I can give you a hint for example. I know you have have contributed into the creation of the idea of the DIC with your research and your team. The IFC is a project. But if you ask me on a specific piece of legislation, I think there are three areas that I personally believe I have contributed to the development of it and to the way it is today. And I am proud. If there is a legacy, I think those three items would be uh my legacy. I think it was in the late 80s early 90s I wrote an article. It was a short I used to write weekly articles in Arabic newspaper. So I wrote a short article about the need to develop our commercial laws and I mentioned three items. One foreign ownership of land that was taboo at the time. No one would even dare discuss it. long-term residency 10 years. I mentioned 10 years. I wouldn't of course dare mentioning citizenship and uh I mentioned I think also something about uh criminalization of uh the checks bounce checks at that time again banks finance companies that was an absolute has to be like this and maybe I think I I was a bit naive I didn't realize at the time what was the sensitivity of those three topics. So I just wrote the article, the newspaper published it like any other article and I had a flashback from one of the prominent uh educated people and he wrote an article about those uh educated people who live in ivory towers. They said in ivory towers don't realize the reality of what's happening here. He's asking for foreign ownership of land. He's asking for 10 years residence. He doesn't understand the structure of what's population is happening. And I recall I did not uh keep silent. I responded by with an article with an longer article in more detail and it became like the talk of the town. I remember with any medist you go at that time, any place would you go, people will ask what I said and what he said. And of course, the whole community was divided between two uh opinions. But I think it was that article that also made some people in the government look at this. Oh, this this guy is saying some interesting things. Yeah, let's think about it. Uh I don't think I think I think it that the the concept was there but you needed someone to advocate it. Yeah. To articulate the structure uh of it. Now today we see foreign ownership of land is is the driver of the economy today. Yeah. Uh the golden visa is granted. I mean we are talking now even one level up by of citizenship and the most difficult part in my opinion was the decriminalization of bounce check that I used to write hundreds of articles always talking about it this is bad for the economy people are running away you are not giving them time to restructure their businesses and finally I think we are where we are today wow this is this is amazing and actually inspiring because you're talking that You did this in the '9s and we have seen the I think which year was 2020 to 2025. I guess this is the phase where a lot of reforms have happened in the legal industry. So it took 10 years or more more almost 20 years to almost 20 years for a thought this seed to be planted and then to grow and this actually is a significant change because I think it it also took some um some stages because they started with the foreign ownership a little bit early. Yes. and then the changes in the commercial companies law and then the the residency and I think in few years we're going to see and the third item was there also the foreign ownership of companies I was asking yes that was the I remember it was not the okay decolonization of checks I was always advocating it but the third item was the 100% ownership of uh companies yes I remember that was the third still have that you know I work a lot in this sphere of the um company structuring and advising on the the corporate law in general. And I remember when it was first brought in to include the local companies in the 100% foreign ownership. A lot of the um professionals in in the region said that this is the death of the free zones. There's no free zone. The free zones are not good anymore. I remember I I I was opposing this because honestly the IFC is not the IFC because it's foreign ownership. The ADGM and DMCC are not as popular and as amazing just because of the foreign ownership. There's so many other perks for these free zones. The same with the VAT and the introduction of taxes. Everybody was afraid. And I said, "Guys, the UAE is not just a tax haven." And and look at everything. Look at the big um the big image. You cannot look at a very small item in the society or in the community or even a benefit that you get and think this is the whole thing. But they all together shape what we have here as the UA. Absolutely. After many years with the introduction of common law into the UAE, I think DFC started in 2004. How do you see this? We're now more than 20 years in the experience. How do you see the DIC and the DIC courts and introduction of the common law jurisdiction within a civil law jurisdiction uh have shaped how the UAE look like? I think the presence of a common law system and common law courts is an incentive for foreign investors. I think many people believe that it's a system of law that they are used to they know so they feel more comfortable dealing with the DIC courts and ADGM courts. There is nothing wrong with civil law. Uh I think both system can work well but at one point of time I think we need to make a judgment call. Are we going to continue with the civil law or do you want to go with the common law? Now, if it was up to me, I would say common law in the whole country for the whole country. Whole country. Okay. And there was an idea that at one point of time this idea was floated. And I recall I was coming I was coming from London and it was at the airport I received a call from one of government senior official says what do you think about common law very good idea can we do it I said yes but it's not a switch that you will decide you need to change not only the courts you need to change the education system training everything it doesn't work like this can you prepare a paper. I said, "Okay." And I remember it was a night flight. I wrote a full kind of a road show on if you want to shift to common law system. But for some reason that decision was uh not taken. Whether it's good to have both or shift completely, I think it's better to shift completely because having two legal systems. Yes, we have Canada for example having both legal systems and that's a different case. I think it's it's leading now to a bit of confusion, conflicting judgments. What public policy does it apply? Is the public policy in the mainland the same public policy as the free DIC and ADM financial free zones. I think at one point of time we need to make judgment call and shift completely in one direction. Wow. Oh, in the ' 66 uh the whole country shifted from left hand drive to right hand drive. I think it's that decision that we need to take. I think we did it as well with the weekend having Friday as Yes, that was a big one. Yes, as well. I will ask you, you told me before we start that I can feel free to ask you sensitive questions please. Okay. DIFF and ADGM. Did we actually need two jurisdictions in the in in the country? Well, we do have two uh exchange. We do have four national airlines. So, I think the the city yes or the country can accommodate both and I think it gives uh people a better choice. I mean for example today I'm receiving clients who would say no we would like to uh go to the ADGM because XY Z or we want to go to DIC because of XY Z. So you are providing opportunities. I I'll tell you my personal opinion. I started my career here in in 2008 and I started in DFC and and DFC when it was the only common law player in the market. Um, of course they were the best within with the best jurisdiction, the best reputation and the best free zone and the biggest and so on. But they were slow to progress and they were very relaxed I would say with the introduction of ADGM. Wow. It it became such an amazing competition. Very healthy. And I realized that the more ADGM is pushing the more DFC is pushing. Yes, both are stellar quality jurisdictions and financial centers and and that's my my opinion on it. So definitely a successful um decision by the UAE. Going back to again the sensitive topics, the rebirth of Habib al- Mah as a law firm, you know, there there was an incident um because of the freedom of speech that you had which was uh very uh much appreciated by everybody here in the UAE. People loved your tweets, people loved your social media presence, but it backfired. I think you enjoyed it a lot and it backfired and created some um situation where you had to um distance yourself from a multinational company with a big name and you had to reinvent Habib al-mola law firm. Can you tell us a little bit about the story? Yeah, I think at the time when we joined with an international firm, I think the idea was good. uh we had the local connections, they had the local the international expertise and reach and it proved well I mean we managed to serve our clients very well and even when we uh bounced the idea by the regulator they were a bit strange how this is going to work where are we going to register you which roster uh and they were clear we'll give you this license and we'll close we don't want to open this door once and over and I know that other firms try to obtain that license you know that was an exceptional case but but there were good reasons when we submitted our application uh I think the direction also at the time changed the firm became very centralized we had more freedom with local firms but still it was going well I think what we had was a clash of cultures uh when you are an international firm you have to yes you have certain values But at the same time you have to realize that your presence in certain jurisdictions have certain restrictions have certain considerations to other cultures which I think they failed to understand. Trying to impose one kind of culture on everyone is not going to work. So of course yes uh there was an incident a local incident which I tweeted about which upseted the whole organization. They wanted me to stop or have my twist being censored in fact and I said that's not going to work. Uh so I said okay let us do separation and I think they they didn't mean it at the time. They thought hard to play to make you okay. Yes. Uh but for me it became a matter of principle. I said fine and despite the fact I have to admit this with the first time that I was at the time not really happy with the marriage that we had but it was going on but when the decision was taken to split I had no plan B there was no backup plan it was spontaneous uh I always say that it was like someone who was working and next day there is no work now. So when we decided to separate there were one good position that yes the brand is there the name is there the people know us as a local brand but at the same time there was no infrastructure we didn't have even PCs we didn't have software programs zero so we had like 30 days basically one month to resurrect everything from assistance from softwares, IT, HR, bank accounts and at the end of the month I had like I think 19 feeers came with me plus the supporting stuff you were about 30 I had to make sure that this 30 people will have to be paid by the end of that month plus you had clients who had ongoing matters they don't care if what you are doing you don't you have a program you don't have a not their problem. That's not my their issue. They need proper responses. They need their cases. So for first few months, it was a nightmare. Yeah. Really a nightmare. But looking backwards today, I think that was probably the best thing that happened uh to the firm to the firm. I would like to understand on the personal level who was your support because it's impossible that you passed this level without emotional and I don't know friends and family who was the main people giving you the push or supporting you or telling you you know what take the decision we are with you see the amount of support I received from the local community and I told when I talk about local community the regional ones okay is unbelievable I I think uh the tweets that we I announced our separation had an impression of more than like 1 million which is phenomenal in in in this region. Uh so the local everyone was supporting of course family and friends everyone was on board but that was only moral support. it was nothing uh uh material and I remember I had to even discuss with bank overdraft facilities because I was not sure whether I'll be able to meet the uh obligations by the end of the months we we asked for like I think 7 million overdraft facility at the time and the banks were really helpful we didn't use even wonder that that's that's quite a support yes that's amazing yes that was amazing so fine we lend you in your name. There's nothing else. It was a trade license and me only. But we didn't use even one dam of that. But at the same time, I have to admit people were bidding that this is not going to be successful at this age. After 40 years of working, you will not have the energy. You will not be able to compete with an international firm. uh this is going to collapse and people were waiting to see okay what are we going to get out uh of this some people of course some of the members left some people believed they stayed one of our partners who still with us today Mr. Muhammad al- Khib he stayed he said I'm going to be with you although he was being very well paid by them and I told him listen uh you will have a share of the profits but I guarantee you that you will get whatever you were getting there and today by grace of God I think he's I think three times much more than what he was getting. Yeah. I mean these believers, the people who support you at the beginning, it was a challenge start. Yeah. And when you put someone on a challenge, they I I think it brought out the best that we had. I remember when we met with the team after the spirit the first meeting I said listen we cannot be the previous firm. The market has changed. The market's view of us has changed. We are either going to be a new firm with completely different mentality or we are going to fail. So part of the community and the moral support I received which was good. I received a call from a senior uh uh member of the team of his highness Mid. Uh I remember I was at evening received a call from him. I I I know the guy but he rarely calls. He said I want to tell you one thing. I'm passing to you the blessings and the greetings of Muhammad is fully supporting you. Don't worry you are uh our son. Uh and don't worry about anything. proceed with the way you believe in. I was really I mean the biggest push that one can get and think of. I think this is really inspiring because these words of support is not a promise that we will pay the salaries if you can't pay or we will give you an introduction to some multinational or government companies to be your clients. They just reate that you're our son or you're we are we're behind you which means that we agree with your um strength to take this firm approach and you did nothing wrong. Please go ahead and this this is amazing and I think this kind of support is all what you need. I don't think the money you got from the bank or any anything else was uh what did you learn from this? I know hard times make people think differently for the rest of their life and and they learn something. What did you personally learn and what do you think other law firms should learn from this experience? Because I think if I if if you would ask me at that time and what's going to happen to this firm, I would say well 90% they're going to be a boutique firm and they're going to go small just to for a few years to to be able to get themselves together and later on maybe maybe they will do something. But what you did is completely the the opposite. You went big from the beginning. So how do you see other firms look at you or Habib Mola as a law firm? Last night I was sitting with uh son of a friend of mine who is studying law in UK. I tell me my son wants to speak to you to uh get your guidance and what kind of law he should study and which career path he should take. So at the end of the meeting he asked me one thing. He said, "Uncle, uh, what made you to be that successful that you are today?" And I looked and I think two things you need to do. One is hard work. There's nothing is going to come easy. No shortcuts. No shortcuts. No shortcuts. I recall when I was my early days, I was starting my day at 5:00 in the morning. I was writing the memos myself. I was going to the court dealing with the court clerks myself. My days would finish at uh midnight. Uh even with BD and marketing I remember at one point of time I attended like four receptions in one evening. One two I told him integrity. Your integrity is your capital. People may sometimes say well I think for this matter for example ex lawyer could be better. He has different offices, different expertise, different team this. But when it comes to integrity, they would come to me, they say, "We trust that his advice is correct. He is not going to bully us around. He is going to tell us what we need to know, not what we would like to know." So I think this these two things you need to keep your integrity intact. That's that your reputation is really your capital reflects back on how you decided is like my opinion is my opinion. That's a cultural issue. I will not change my words and I don't take censorship from anybody and it makes sense with the rebuilding of of Habib Mullah as a firm. You you've done very strong decisions and I honestly don't understand but I need an explanation from you. You you've gone to open an office in India where we have tons of Indian lawyers here who can cover the Indian market. You have opened an office in a country that has sanctions from the rest of the world. You have opened uh some offices in other jurisdictions that other firms especially local Amirati firms are now going to. Why did you choose always to do something that no one is doing? Okay. For every office that you open there is a reason. The the general objective is that we follow Emirati investments. Where are the is the direction of the Emirati investments? We follow them. Our goal is to serve the Emirati investors who are going abroad not the local markets. For example, Istanbul which was our first destination. We never thought of but then I saw Zishn went to had a visit to Turkey. They signed this comprehensive economic agreement said fine that could be our first destination. So we went there. No one else thought at the time. Moscow was a different case. Everyone was pulling out because of the sanctions. I told my team this is an opportunity. Let us go there. And I have to admit not everyone was happy. They thought of sanctions. It's difficult market. No one has done it. Why should we be? I said you need to be the first if if you are going to have an impact. So we went there. I have to admit the rules and regulations were much better than any other jurisdictions that so we could have easily our own license and everything. Uh now what I found is okay on on the ground was different. In fact when the international brands pulled out the local teams exist continued to exist. So they only changed the the sign board. The sign board, nothing else. Yeah, it's the same team. So we didn't want to really play in the local market. And I told the uh lawyers whom I meet, for example, in Turkey and in Moscow, we are not here to compete with you. I told them when I was in Turkey, I told him, you have 100,000 registered lawyers in your bar. one more lawyer is going to add anything. But when you have investors coming from UAE, they would like to deal with a firm that they can have the same language, same cultural mindset, everything. And if there is a lot of work that we can't handle it, we will cooperate with you. So it's a win-win for everyone. We are not competing with you. And I think everyone was happy with this argument. Now today our investment in Moscow has been the most successful. By the way, we have moved to a newer location. Now we have just taken a bigger office. You are going to I think in February relaunched the office. We have recruited more lawyers now. Uh and it has been one of the most successful ventures that we did. Now at the time did I calculate all the risks? Maybe not. But sometimes I always believe overcalculating will lead you nowhere. If you get it 70% right, go ahead. Don't hesitate. Don't wait for the perfect situation, perfect opportunity. That is not never going to happen. you started to talk about like entrepreneurs. Now you're you're I know the DNA is law but but you have an entrepreneur in inside you because these risk takingaking and opening markets and and developing teams and collaboration with other um companies or law firms is actually an very entrepreneurial thing. Um something is really changing right now. There is so many content creators in in in not just in UAE. I think there is a revolution of content that is happening at the moment. What's your take on lawyers penetrating the social media? There's so many legal content created by lawyers specialized in all fields and everyone is taking a stage. even honestly some of them who are not so specialized they're just starting to get some leads but I would like to know your opinion on the presence of lawyers on social media I will take you 30 years back to a landmark case that I worked with and I will link it to your uh question I think it was early '90s uh there was a kind of a shutdown of the internet in the whole country and the newspapers wrote about it and some even went to say conspiracy. Oh, it was an Israeli attack on our uh internet system. Musad was behind it and okay but I mean and it was a big talk at the time. I received a call from uh one of my clients. He said I have a friend of mine. His son is in a trouble. Can you please see him? At that time I was still taking I mean some of the criminal cases. So I met the father came with his son and the son was talking to me. I think he was like 18 17 years old. Oh it I went to this on the net. I went to the toad was called the talat system. The system was broken. I came out but then the whole internet fell down and I'm afraid that they are going to accusion. This is the same. You're the reason. You're the reason. Are you sure? So, okay. We can't deal with this case in a normal scenario. The whole country is against you. What we need to do is to fight them on a different area. So, I called couple of my people I know at the media. Listen, do you know the subject? Yeah, of course. I have the really you have he said yes. Do you want to have a audience with him? Yes. I said okay. So I called him and I remember BBC came scene everyone came and I present him said listen this is the guy. He didn't do anything wrong. Solar system was uh wrong uh malfunctioning. He only went and came out. They are trying to use him as a scapegoat. Uhhuh. Yes. And of course next day everyone wrote about the story and of course the whole country was divided. Some people think oh how you are defending this guy this is our national company. It's a lot was it was a lot and I remember they made a press conference against it and I made a press conference and it became like a prince conference game. The whole game shifted from courts to media to media to the extent one of the reporter was telling me he called the head of the media section at Salah to ask to get her uh views and she said don't talk to me about this. This is causing headache for us. We don't want to deal with this issue. And the guy was fined 5,000 DS and he used afterwards he was contacted by banks to you at to work as a consultant to try to hack this system. Now coming back to your question media is very important for lawyers for their be for their image the proper but proper approach you need to present yourself in a professional way. Now you are talking about the influencers. I'm 100% with them. I think it's a new mode, new technique, new generation have to go into it. But there are certain boundaries, there are certain rules that they need to respect. But I am 100% in support of this. Yeah, I think it it's very enriching and a lot of the content that's coming out at the moment um is is is very valuable. Even a very small remark. I received a call yesterday from one of my friends. I make very short videos when I'm in the car. So sometimes I make reminders to everybody because some of my clients, actually a lot of my clients are following my social media. So I make a reminder about uh tax filing. I make a reminder to my friends who are making advertising and so on to uh to apply for the uh advertiser permit and from time to time I make this. So I receive a call from my friend and he said you know what thank you so much for the video of today. Uh I I just realized I'm a manager in one nonprofit association and they did not file for the v for the for the the corporate tax until now and thank you. It was the deadline today and they did it yesterday. So just one day before that. So it's really a very important thing and I think if it's done right and if it's done with a purpose people can benefit a lot from it. Absolutely. The community can benefit the law himself also can benefit because he's also building his character his image. So I I think it's very important for people to go through it. Even if they make mistakes in the beginning that's fine they will learn. you have you're now leading one of the most important law firms in in the UAE and and soon to be recognized in the whole Middle East and and in different areas. You have initiatives in education in sponsorship of of of young mentoring uh people giving awards and you have the the academy Habib al- Mah Academy. What was the most challenging leadership moment in in building these things together? because you have so much to do in a very short time and I think you have also a national duty because from time to time you've been called for opinions from government institutes and um what's most challenging in this the most challenging part is to build a team and I recall this was not I mean uh an issue that I only faced I was once attending the musl of Muhammad and he was mentioning I think at the time was there was a delegation coming from Malaysia or somewhere and they asked him exactly this question. He said the biggest challenge I am facing is to build up your team. You need first to build a team who can uh embody you your vision, understand what you are doing and then it will be easy. And this is the same situation that I feel. I come up with certain ideas. I want this to be finished in this time. I it it takes a lot of effort to make the team really understand the vision and be on par with your vision and try really to achieve it. The lesson I learned today I said listen we are going for example to open an office in Baghdad. This is the deadline. I want the office to be open this day. Now we need to work backwards. Okay. So the deadline is always there and I always remind them we have this much time left. We have this much time left and that is really work. It challenged everyone to bring out their best. So building a team and putting a target. Yes, these are the most challenging points and most important I I resonate with this a lot. I am also doing a lot of activities and so on and I find delivering the idea is easy. coming up with a very amazing project is is fun and it's good but without a proper team who understand the idea and who is willing to act as a team and to take it forward is one of the most challenging what's your proudest achievement not as a lawyer now as Habib Mullah not as Dr. Habib al- Mullah personal achievement that you find it that brings a lot of my my uh personal achievement that I am really proud proud of is the uh my writings you know I I used to write uh like almost every week sometimes I was a bit so sometimes more active and when I wanted to compile all this I realized that there were more than 600 articles some of them. When I read it today, I was thinking how why how did I think those days of of these things? Uh I mean I I I don't think it's only credit of myself. It's combination of everything. Of course at the end of it's blessings of God that uh can make you that success. But I think those writings are really one thing that I am uh proud of. Do you still write regularly now? Okay. I write but it has changed. Okay. I used to write articles in uh newspapers. Of course, newspapers have faded today. Uh today I write more some kind of a legal posts uh basically on X Twitter before and sometimes on LinkedIn because I'm reading. Yes, I I do the both. In fact, I LinkedIn is a different audience. It's a different audience. So, I take the same one, I put it whatever is purely legal, not social or political or whatever, I post it on LinkedIn and I enjoy it because it it requires some research. Takes time. Yeah. Uh but when a friend of mine asked that, are you going to compile this? I said I didn't have that thought, but it could be a good idea to combine them. And I just finished uh writing my new book on uh the corporate tax. Okay. Yeah. Commentary on the corporate tax in the UE. It's an Arabic. It's finished. Uh hopefully it will come out very soon. Inshallah. Although I have to admit one thing. Sorry. people don't think of uh my legacy in in the legal field. This uh Saturday I was vi visiting another prominent lawyer Mr. Tamimi of course he invited me to his farm and he was showing me his farm and this and everything and his son came abdah. So he was telling his son do you know this? He said no. I said, "This is Alib Mullah, the lawyer." So, oh yes, I know him. I follow his uh Instagram post about restaurants. Yes. So, I said, "My legacy is the food advocate." The food advocate. I think you're doing an amazing job there. Honestly, what uh what I find it very amusing is that you're you're you're not monetizing this at all. This is all for free. This is all actual genuine personal opinion about food and restaurants. How many restaurants did you review so far? On the website which is the foodadvocate.com, we have 1,300 restaurants. 1,300 restaurants in 26 countries, 90 cities around the globe. Wow. And that's only from 2000 I think we went back to 2018, not before. That was difficult to go uh earlier than that. Good. We're not doing advertising, but I have to ask you one very good question. When you win a very good deal, where do you go for dinner? Depending on the deal itself. Okay. Depending on the deal, if it's a the clients, if it's an M&A big uh deal, uh then of course you need to go to a fine dining restaurant. Fine dining restaurant. You have one that is your closest to your heart. Let's say 2025 this year. I'm trying one tomorrow. I think it's it's going to be an outstanding one. Yeah. FZN in the Royal Atlantis. And I'm saying this because I have been to the original one in Stockholm. Okay. And it was outstanding. Okay. Okay. So, let's see. I will call you tomorrow. Okay. Tell me what's your opinion. Can I ask you about politics? Sure. the it's not just the region honestly that's on the verge of instability. This not just the region I think worldwide there's a lot of concerns in in in wars erupting in many places and some wars are actually ongoing and some have been um affecting the UAE and some not. What of these occasions does concern you the most? Frankly, I mean the whole situation is concerning. You don't know in which direction things are going, which leads uncertainty. Uncertainty is your biggest enemy. You don't know whether you should invest, not invest, expand, not expand, how the market is going to happen. Uh but despite all this, when you look what's happening in our region, I'm talk only about our region. You see that UEIE is despite everything going around it are going full force in investments expanding venturing into new areas AI jurisdictions signing treaties with different countries see what's happening for example in Saudi Arabia with his royal highness uh Prince Muhammad bin Salman's vision uh see what's for example happening in even in Muscat I mean Kuwait uh Morocco I mean the industrial development that's happening there. Egypt with their developments in different aspects. Yes, people I think the message is clear. There is a fire but we are not going to stop until you extinguish the fire and then we think we are going to go forward. I think this is the message that the leaders in the region are trying to send which is comforting and I think we need to follow that same path. You can't wait until things become really calm and cool because historically the region has every other once in a while are having a turmoil. Something is happening somewhere but still you will never be ready for development. You will never be 100% ready for for for doing a good thing. I think you just have to go ahead and plan the future for it. I will ask you some questions but I need the answers in one word. One word. Okay. A few that will just come to a lawyer. You will try. Um one trait, one personal uh thing that that that a lawyer would have and you say I will not work with this guy. Ethics. And the opposite. One trait that will make someone very interesting to work with. Again, ethics. What does the leadership mean to you? Courage. Um, how do you see the future in the UAE? Bright. How did you like this conversation? Interesting. Thank you very much. I actually enjoyed a lot and I think it's really a phenomenal uh discussion and um I don't think it's going to be the last. I just have in my mind now couple of other times that I will invite you. one will speak in Arabic, five will speak into six other topics and uh it's really a pleasure to have you here today. It's uh it's been a very interesting discussion. Thank you. Thanks. What is the question that I did not ask that you had in mind or did you have in mind that I was expecting that you are going to ask me about my uh food passion and how did it develop. I I am following you for a while. So I guess I have a very good idea. But tell me um let's say tell me where do you see also the food blog? I I know it's a hobby thing that you will uh that you're doing. But um why did you start it actually? I have a habit. If I do something I need to do it perfectly or I don't do it. I don't touch it. I don't do half cook job. So I always liked food and I recall even many many years ago when my children were very young, I used to buy like uh delicacy chocolates and I keep them in the closet and every night I would call them and give them one. But what really made me take it seriously, I was having lunch once with uh a friend of mine, professor uh Abdul Khalah from university and he told me why don't you write I mean you go to all these restaurants why don't you write a book then what I'm going to write and you know going to restaurants what kind of book I should write said okay I thought it will be like maybe 15 20 pages what can you write more than this but I took it seriously I ordered some uh books, references. I started to read. I realized that there is nothing in the Arabic library. Yes, there are cooking books but nothing which talks about the culture of food, restaurants, the history of it. And so I started writing. I remember I got a call from the publisher saying this is more than 200 pages. You need to stop. You can't go like this. So I had to even think it. Then I started taking it more seriously. Okay, I published the book. Now let me post use my Instagram account to post about food. And what I found is that there are a lot of food bloggers. But in my opinion, they lack credibility because they are paid. So they are doing it for a purpose. I needed to show that no you you can't do this job without really being biased uh or prejudiced. So uh I started taking it and slowly I started to learn how to really post what time what you do. It's taking a lot of time because I'm doing it on personally. I go to a restaurant, I put my remarks, I reddraft it, then I post it. It takes a lot of time but I enjoy it. I I want to ask you something. What do you think of the Michelin? I mean why a tire company like Michelin are involved in reviewing food? Oh, it's easy. There was a logic behind it. The reason is they wanted people to drive to restaurants in order to consume used attires. So they would exchange the tires more frequently and they would sell more tires. That was the whole concept of it. Wow. Yes. I didn't know that. Yes. That was that was the real reason why they went into this area. And I remember I was always pushing our tourism department. Get the Michelin guy. Get the Michelin guide. Get the Michelin guide. To the extent once they called me and they said come the Michelin team is here. meet with them and see for yourself that we are doing it. Now today if you ask me do I trust mission guide? No. Unfortunately I think they became very commercial. Uh I may use them as a reference probably in Europe in the US but not any other not any other place. No they they become very commercial. Is there um is there a chance that we see in the future a local guide here that can go international? I mean, using your your your 1,300, you need a full You need a full team. You need a full team for that. But, you know, ideas, as you said, 20 years ago, it was just an article and now they are reality. Maybe you will have an international guide led by Dr. Habib Mullah. Hopefully, probably. Dr. Hhabib, it's really an interesting discussion and please I want you to promise us that you will come back to the jurist to sit down and talk about other topics. Inshallah. Inshallah. Pleasure to have discussing it with you. Now this is your dose from the jurist. Thank you very much. Interesting discussion. We cannot have enough of Dr. Habib, but uh for another week and see