[Music] the problem in this regard is that I see a lot of I a lot of challenges when it comes to my name is Ahmed Elnaggar and this is Monday Legal hello my name is Abdallah Al Shehaby and that's a very special episode of Monday legal I have my guest in his own Place Ahmed Elnaggar how does it feel being a guest in your own place for me very new experience to be sitting on on this side of the table yes of course it's like starting from scratch it's new for me about starting from scratch uh how did it start the jurist and Monday Legal the jurist did not start as a jurist it started as the UAE jurist I thought to start a legal blog to write articles and to publish these articles uh and it started from the fact that I started to read a lot of Articles legal articles was was also very difficult to find uh good quality legal content online that you can actually rely on unless uh you you uh you you have access to uh the big companies where they have to pay a subscription to to to have access to these Publications otherwise you wouldn't have access to good legal knowledge and at that time I I used to work for a Swiss law firm and uh they didn't have that uh budget for for something like this so I was sorting out uh my own uh uh legal resources from the from Google and from books from time to time or I call one of my friends in the top firms and tell them why don't you pass to me an article about this and so on so I started thee jurist and I started writing my own articles and inviting my friends why don't you uh uh write an article I'll publish you I'll put your photo I'll put your name here and I'll mention your firm and your email maybe you get business out of it as well uh that's how started and 2 maybe 2017 18 and uh yeah it grew from there and uh lately like two years ago I realized that uh maybe limiting the content to only UA is not a good thing I wanted to get articles from Saudi and from Qatar from Egypt so I changed the name into the jurist that's how it started so that's for the jurist yes one day legal Monday legal uh was very interesting as well because I had the idea since I started the tourist back in the days to do videos P or something pushed you to do it I I I will give the credit to a friend of mine a very good friend of mine uh she is a video producer and the creative director uh from uh Russia uh her name is Daria ratova she uh she always heard me because I always talk about the idea uh of of having it and she always hear me to tell me yes you can do it you can do it let's do it to a certain extent she heard it too many times from me and and and she got like Angry like stop talking about it just do it let's do one and if it fails and it's bad don't do it again I said okay okay okay calm down let's do it she she gave me the push for the first three episodes and she helped me she got the team and she got the camera and she got everything so that that was the the push what did you tell yourself to bridge this fear because these kind of sense of control I said like and I will have the videos and I will have control on the uh on the page if it's if it's that bad I'm gonna just shut it down do it if it's that bad I'll I'll I'll delete it from everywhere I uh I still have the control and when was the first episode uh January this year January this year yeah so it took you what seven years yeah with the idea yes it takes seven years and then it takes a push um P when you have it on the back of your mind poti the push is really important absolutely but if you're not really believing in the idea you wouldn't do it is pushing you I believed in in and and this could be nice thing to do how many interviews until now uh published already 30 or I think 30 uh and we have in the pipeline about six now that you are where you are with the Monday Leal looking back how would you feel most honestly uh two folds the first one is that I feel like I should have done it earlier and and and um it's not only about the podcast there was a few things that I I realized and then I should have done it much earlier had on a personal level um and and and it's a great reminder for myself right now n not uh not not to wait for many things and this was one of the things that kept waiting uh in the back of my mind for many years but when I realized that things that you are waiting for you can just do and it will turn out much better than you think uh is amazing remind you shouldn't be afraid it's much better let's do it and and it's it's really not not smart in terms of exposure I'm very happy now I'm doing it only now why as I'm much more confident now I'm much more accomplished now I'm much more uh relaxed uh pH pH in my career right now yeah I have my firm and I'm so settled and I'm so comfortable I have an amazing team uh to to give me the time and the comfort that I can do this side thing right now I'm I'm very happy that it happened uh after covid not before digitally people are much more mature right now than how it was before ald 100% I think I was very lucky dub [Music] momentum will speed with dedication aggression [Music] [Music] [Laughter] rad yeah it couldn't get worse private clients he didn't appreciate it he didn't like it it was nice it's not my cup of tea opportunity excited [Music] in your situation is Readiness so you got ready yes and then what happened how did you decide to close this chapter and to start another one that let's say and in I achieved the the the the the highest position at the Swiss firm where I am and I wanted to grow more and I understand and and you have to look around you and see your space is is there room for you to grow in that space or I realized uh and I couldn't grow more I I'll I'll be faced with a lot of resistance because I want to make changes and I understand very well the Readiness of the other parties to do these changes and I will have less freedom to to make some changes in the processes plus and you reach a certain level you know very well that the people around you will not let you how the structure or the culture of the firm will not let you uh go higher than where you are so this is it but if you want to grow more you want to have a different position you have to make your choice whether to continue in the Cozy place while I take a new challenge for me it was a new challenge different people in you many people actually in in that situation they would look uh for an opportunity in a bigger firm yes you didn't I did I was afraid I had the idea and it was nice and then I did it for two reasons one I wanted to explore the market and how much is my worth and the second one is to prove to myself that if I didn't make it I'll have a space in in a bigger firm if I approach the biggest UA low firm at the time number one okay without names why oh yes uh I sit down with the head of HR directly and he gave me the uh green light to reach out and to uh speak to the how did you get this meeting with the or uh direct connection okay A friend of a friend yeah it was that but this this happened because I'm already in the market for you to know that there is a friend of a friend who knows the HR of this you must have done some fetching 100% no I'm in the market I'm I'm I'm working in a firm in uh in the DFC U I go to all the events I attend uh uh afterwork gatherings I know lawyers from different firms I collaborate with local firms you're out there already of course if you're not out there you wouldn't have this access I spoke to the guy I told him you know him put me in touch he put me in touch uh we had a coffee and we talked and he said yes I think you can fit in I'll connect you to the partner I had another meeting with the partner and uh the third meeting was telling me straightforward we hire you uh and my um my my my last question before the before the meeting end was I'm not coming alone I'm coming with clients I've been here six years I have a client base and uh I know you're the biggest firm and everything but my clients will follow me because this is a personal relation and uh how much I'm going to get out of the clients I don't care about the income of the my salary or so on so forth um what's my uh what's my cut it was also very clear and straightforward is that no you're coming as an ass uh you're not going to get anything out of this thep that you were a partner I was a partner and I was accepting to get to an associate level because I'm reaching out to the top firm so I I said I don't care to step down from partner to associate because I'm going to a bigger firm because there is a challenge to go as a partner in a bigger firm where the culture is different for I didn't mind to step down two levels to a bigger firm Al and to take the Lea up again I don't know call it stupid call it confident I don't know but that that what happened it was the my decision to uh to ask them straightforward I'm coming with clients and my portfolio of clients is X how much I'm going to get out of this X and they said sorry it's it's not possible you need like four years to to to achieve that again to get to a partner level where you can do that then I said like thank you so much no I'll take all this X and I'm going to start my firm of course I didn't say it in the interview you said it to yourself yes I said it to myself and you did and I did how was it how did you structure it Law Firm is a lot of files yeah not client files you know what I mean yes a lot of it's a business yes how did you structure it in your mind it's it's a scary decision right wow tell me about it I asked a few people for opinion and I got conflicted opinions so I didn't get like 90% are telling me do it 10% oh you don't need them de yes big RIS why not so is your partner and your client he was my client at certain time would is my business part although he's not a lawyer he's not a lawyer how how was your experience attracting the first associate I made a very wrong decision I heard the very uh the wrong guy um and it took me six months to let him go I was learning by doing honestly uh it was a very uh tough time but uh um I used to do both our jobs me and him yeah and I uh I thought I'm relying on him and I thought that's the best I can get uh with the income with the salary I can offer uh but I realized later on and I was wrong but I learned of quality leftovers I guess Choice how do you attract them opportunity you have to find the uh um the the the right setup because Fess and you have to understand what they what they're looking for because some people are looking for the big name because they want to learn corporate they want to learn big law because that's that's a total animal it's completely different game some people want to hide in bigger firms because it's easier to hide to work two hours a day and hide the rest of the day doing nothing but the smaller firms you can't do that it's impossible some people want the flexibility of the smaller firms and for them they don't care of the big name or they don't even care about the income they just want the flexibility of time and and and and holidays and where they work and things like this so you have to understand what what that the people want and then you'll qualify if they want to if they work for you or not people can hide more in big FMS productive hours partners comparing to the the population of the firm we're now about 12 [Music] yes uh aldah and I'm I'm still up and running I'm not uh I'm not stay I'm I'm not stand still I'm just growing it's one step K uh but I'm growing it's very steady slow and uh very sure I have the same clients uh since Inception unless they close down for for commercial reasons I I never lost a client for uh a bad service while I complain since since [Music] ever I was able to manage relationships I'm very happy [Music] Network theist podcast what's next oh what's next what's next what's next in this profession oh well I'm doing I'm working on on on something what are your Ambitions what's next what's next in the G Partners I'm I'm I'm making a complete digital transformation firm and one of the one of the very unique uh maybe not the biggest but one of the very unique uh law firms that relies very much on technology and is technology enabled to a very different level uh I'm doing something that that does not exist in the market and when I say Market I'm talking Middle East on a small level because we are a small firm Boutique firm yes this is going to be very unique and this I'm working on right now what's next for the jurist uh I want to grow it to become a free legal resource hub for the whole Middle East to for for for easy access to Credible and practical legal knowledge what's next for Monday legal um [Music] uh again showcase quality [Music] the correct and truth true weight for legal knowledge in Middle East is passing through an amazing time get and then opportunity we need to show off we need already picking up big time huh it's already picking up big time yes so we need to show off we need to show off we need to show capabilities [Music] in business people not just the legal people uh plan to educate corporations misconceptions [Laughter] private inv knowledge leg knowledge URS very rigid [Music] inaccessible how does it feel about the interview wow shooting questions at you is so EAS questions left and right but it's not so easy hat thank you this is your do from Monday legal Ahmed we'll see you next week