[Music] problem in this regard is that I see a lot of I a lot of challenges when it comes to my name is Ahmed Elnaggar and this is Monday legal good morning back again with Monday legal this episode I have Sara Malik the very famous one and uh I we will not talk about the law we talk about everything else good morning Sara good morning Ahmed and thank you and I'm glad we're not talking shop thank you very much for coming to the jurist podcast Monday legal very happy to have you here and today we plan to talk about anything that is not related to the law fantastic beyond the law so that works can you uh we'll do it the media guys style okay what do you what do you do other than lawyering because you're lawyering all the time you speaking in many legal events doing a lot of events related to training and uh so on so forth but we don't want to talk about that what do successful lawyers do Beyond lawyering well I I like to have a life outside of law some of it compliments the law but I keep myself busy I enjoy sports I enjoy music I enjoy traveling not just for work I have my children I work out um and I try to make the best of of each moment so aside from law I have other businesses as well um that I invest in and I enjoy doing and increasingly doing more on the Fashion sports entertainment side strategic and operational so the law is one hat I wear and I've worn it for now 25 years actually this month so um that's a long time whether I'll do it for another 25 I don't think so yeah I mean I I've seen this approach for many successful lawyers when they kind of do it all and they feel like they achieved a lot but none of them go to Fashion or Sports everybody go to I don't know real estate some of them do uh um Family office work sometimes some of them just go and do in house just to feel it's funny I'll take all of those three off so I already act as kind of external GC so in-house real estate I'm doing some stuff in family office have already done so I kind of tick those off and that's why I've probably gone into the sports and fashion and and as all those who know me know I'm always disrupted anyway and I kind of lead my own way and I don't follow the well Traden path so tell us a little bit what what what what are you doing in fashion because I I've seen that you're doing the sarik lifestyle corre and this is one of the um entrepreneurship ideas that you have sorted what is Sara Malik lifestyle so basically over years there was this kind of constant demand internationally Sarah can you help us with this can you Mentor us with that it was from businesses it was from individuals and it wasn't necessarily always just a legal kind of bre brief which I could put through Soul so I realized that there was a demand in the market for people who wanted to hear from someone who experienced someone who's involved with industry my passion from a young age has always been kind of Fashion sports I've grown up with it I grew up in a family where my parents are in retail and wholesale I you know uh walked the Streets of London as a kid with my father mesmerized by all of the you know beautiful dresses and he'd buy and my mother you know attention to detail she's really into to herir clothes as kids we had our attire flown in on Eid from abroad so I kind of grew up in that environment and I never lost the passion for it I'm going to the bar very conservative profession I I think I was able to kind of put out the nice shoes but I dressed you know as I'm supposed to dress in a dark suit in London and coming to Dubai I was able to break free and really be myself um I pursued a course in fashion law uh last year as I was traveling in London and Zanzibar and trying to Holiday um for 150 hours or 120 with the Milan Fashion Institute and after that I was um appointed on the bayout fashion advisory Council by by sard um and uh have worked with some of the fashion houses in the UAE uh in terms of employee issues in terms of kind of HR and uh increasingly now with European Brands who are coming into the Middle East so it kind of grew organically and then it wasn't really something I wanted to put under Soul because I don't just advise on contracts it's a um operational advice it's strategic advice so I think in those areas fashion and sports you need to be involved in the industry it's not like contract law or tax law where you can sit behind a desk and do the do do the contracts or practice the law um I think the credibility comes from being on the ground understanding your client's mindset needs so it was a kind of organic uh way of going forward so it's not just fashion and sports that SML does it's also kind of business advice individuals um corporations but I I like to focus on fashion spots did you notice that even your interests that are outside the law and your hobbies are going to take you back to work so you did the fashion out of uh love to the the the fashion side and you did sport because you're Enthusiast and you're doing sports all your life and you like this but it going to take you a little bit back to the profession there's a huge compliment which is nice um and it's it's I've like built my own little ecosystem in the Fashion sports and law site and it's a niche area this year we introduced the first um LLB program for sports law at MX University Dubai where I'm a Jun faculty and I know there's a huge need for it across the GCC when I was doing my LLB like a thousand years ago we didn't have things like fashion law you know we did the T Etc Fashion sports are great areas for the new generation especially in this region but yes kind of compliments each other do you believe in work life balance I believe work life balance doesn't exist I believe it's a myth I believe it's nice to talk about and work towards but the reality is um to me and I just walk my own path and talk about my own experience you always giving something up at some stage to achieve something else but that doesn't matter when you get over the guilt trip um nothing's ever perfect somebody who says to me I've got my kids where I want them I've got my work where I want it my partner's happy my friends are happy I'm living in Ethiopia I'm like no that that doesn't exist yeah at any given point when you're really vested in work you might be slacking a bit from family life or personal life and then when you're you know really enjoying that side you might be slacking a bit from work but hey it's okay I think as long as you know yourself what you prioritize and when and that changes throughout your life what I wanted 20 years ago is very different to what I want now so work life balances myth it doesn't exist you make your life balance for you as you go through your journey and and you go don't get to kind of Judge anyone's life because everybody's different and they're at different stages of life so um my view is that I I had to give up a lot to get to where I'm at the sacrifices that go in um do I regret that absolutely not would I do it again yes because I wouldn't be here today if I didn't I understand that everybody or especially in the in in the law we have this um entrepreneurial uh feelings even when we were just working hour and hour put the bable hours together and and and reaching our targets and so on but we have this thing of trying to build things and and that's probably why when you grow to a certain level you started Fe feel having these entrepreneurship feelings and start to build uh companies or initiatives and so on this sense of achievement is different than the sense of achievement for a lawyer who is fixing a case or getting a conflict and so on which one do you prefer yeah it's a good question I don't think I have a preference for either I think if you do something you do it well it's what gives you self- satisfaction as lawyers there very little kind of you know validation or or you know we we we are recognized for what we do day and day out we do so much and you know you might you get the odd client who's really thankful and like oh you know you've really changed everything but we we are happy when we've seen something through to the end and it's a personal self sense of self-satisfaction uh when I do things for others through SML lifestyle and when they achieve their achievements are mine so um it's it's not like law when we achieve we kind of ACH even though it's for our client you know you feel a self sense of self um satisfaction because you've made a difference to that case when my clients achieve well through SM lifestyle I feel happy for them and it's a joint satisfaction so they're different feelings but equally I think for me um what gets me going and what what I thrive for is a challenge like I get bored if something's just routine which is why I'm always kind of you know doing something different and something new I've always been like that so some people say how can you kind of switch from law to fashion and sports and travel and being in one country one day one the next I'm like I don't know any other way I've always got like 50 things spinning and that gives me a sense of kind of achievement satisfaction that I'm utilizing my time for me it's not for everyone and I don't at all say that you know people should be like this but it's what's worked for me and what gives me that kind of day-to-day purpose sense and satisfaction that's very nice um can you tell me about your travels how many times do you travel a year for work how many times do you travel a year for Sara mik yeah so um I travel a lot for work at one stage I think every couple of weeks I was on a plane and they started joking around in some of the dispute week saying oh we should just get you Jet and I thought oh maybe I should do a girl fund of me on LinkedIn and say guys we can share this let's do a crowdfunding but no um from the beginning when I set Sal up it was called sa International our second kind of page on on the website was about the fact that we're affiliated in different jurisdictions I have a background in the UK um I'm set up in ad GM I I uh you know do work out here I you know I have a footprint in in in Africa because I'm appointed in Singapore so I wanted to to to kind of of differentiate and show that International stance and I really enjoy doing stuff internationally I want to ask you uh a question now uh to give an advice but sorry not a traditional way what uh what what advice you give to the young lawyers to grow and to do and succeed because everybody said that I want you to say the opposite what are the things that they should avoid not do um to have a a a successful career and have a good life as well okay number one I think uh what you should not do as a young lawyer is try to not be yourself I know you have to fit a mold I know that um you're expected to kind of grow with the company and do as you're told but you should not sell yourself out you are a person authenticity and rawness I think gets has got me where I am today and probably yourself right people respect that you're yourself and you're not trying to be something you're not a bad photocopy of somebody else so do not try and replicate what you are not because you're just killing your soul in doing that number two do not do this profession and do not be part of it unless you are vested and you have that fire in your your soul that hunger in your belly I had that I still have it to some degree but when I was much younger and I was starting out at 20 you know I had a burning passion for Law and if you don't have that do not do this profession because it will suck you dry it's a really kind of Hands-On um profession as you know constantly kind of learning constant deadlines constant struggles constant stress and if it's not your passion do not do it number three I think do not um think that you know I'm I'm kind of a one-man band and I I want to get further without working as a team collaboratively you will go much further do not be that lawyer who's you know um backstabbing others or in healthy composition is good in a law firm get me wrong but don't put yourself out there um and alienate your colleagues you go so far together and I think sometimes it's not the lawyer's fault it's a law firm's fault they play people off against each other and I think it's wrong um and I never I thankfully when I was trained it wasn't like that but even within my own team I'm like I'm not impressed by somebody kind of getting one up on another I'm impressed by you all working together and having each other's backs so don't be that lawyer also don't kind of um overpromise and under deliver you know sometimes you're new you're young you think you can take on 15 things you can't be realistic go to a mentor get guidance or go to your supervisor and say look I've got all of these tasks I don't want to say no to them because they're being fired at me but can I prioritize and you know can I can I um you know push some off till tomorrow and get that guidance don't overburden yourself because one your work output won't be great number two you're going to be uh stressed out and it it's all going to come crashing down the people who' have given you the work aren't going to be happy with it you yourself are going to be absolutely exhausted so it's a kind of a circular no no so definitely don't do that um and uh don't kind of keep quiet where you need to communicate I think one of the pet problems young lawyers have is the failure to communicate so many things can be avoided if people communicated so don't kind of keep quiet where you don't need to and make sure that you know you you are putting your points forward and also uh it's a kind of do rather than a don't but I I guess I could mix it into both don't cover try and cover things up oh on your mistake we all make mistakes we're human nobody's you know perfect and in our profession we miss deadlines you know we might send an email that goes to the wrong person you know because it's very easy mistake to do own that mistake yeah if you don't own it it will own you now that's advice I give um you know whether it's personal or professional if you make a mistake and you take ownership of it it doesn't come back to bite you yes I did that yes I fixed it whereas if you shy away from it or you try and cover it up or you you kind of you know telling truths about it it'll forever chase you so don't try and cover things up don't try and pull the wool over the eyes of your senior kind of colleagues I mean sometimes we think it's laughable when a junior is trying to explain their way out of a situation and within about 10 seconds you know you know what's the re the reality of what's happened but you kind of entertain it anyway because you're like let me see how far you're going to go with this and I always say to my team if I ask you a question nine times out of 10 I already know the answer right so don't underestimate the seniors you know we we we come with gray hairs and a lot of kind of wisdom um and don't don't be afraid to reach out and ask questions I think sometimes there's this I have to know everything and I if I ask somebody something it looks like I'm not a great lawyer I I was never of that mindset rather than spend 10 hours in a library I if I could pick the phone up speak to my instructors list I would I'd still do the work but don't feel that you know um you you don't have an outlet to reach out to I wish people told us that as we were growing up in the law but I was fortunate to have a very good kind of supervisor and I was always very kind of um uh different anyway and I I never was that kind of lawyer who's going to keep quiet and do things just because I was told to do I was always fairly disruptive and I guess to some that's great maybe it's a Dubai thing everybody has a Rolex and has other 5 10 other watches okay the point my question is the percentage of time that you wear the Rolex versus all the other War watches okay so in full disclosure I don't only have one I probably have about eight right so this watches are a thing of mine and and i' I'd probably have more real estate if I didn't have a thing for watches and shoes and hand bites yes but um I've always loved watches over the years and I've I've invested heavily um so when you say you don't wear one over the other I guess wearing one over you know the other ones you have um is a question but I I I have a a good collection I hope for my my children so um and I try to kind of change according to the outfit or mood but sometimes it's your favorite brand of watches so I I like Rolex for dayto day um I do have a ptic Philip um I got a couple of hubs and I really do like those they're quite sporty um but I think my favorite brand and one I will have maybe in a couple of years I I work towards is the AP I want to buy the AP um and uh the Hermes Buren that's my next on my wish list but that's that's the thing that's the observation is like the most of the time you will be on which one probably still on the Rolex because it's more dayto day right that's the point yeah every every other lawyer do that I think you'll own them you'll like them but you go for the RO you it's just um you know it's a standard it works it's uh you know you you know what to expect from it so right well thank you very much for the for having me I enjoy it the coffee is good I hope it's Focus yeah this is your dose from Monday legal see you next week and thank you very much to Monday legal jist and Ahmed I really enjoyed that because it was so so non-legal and just absolutely not scripted um and I like that better the kind of freestyle interviews thank you very much