[Music] good morning I'm Ahmed Elnaggar and this is Monday legal today my guest is lyette sakto from real trust good morning good morning thank you for having me thank you very much much for coming it's our pleasure and I would like to ask you a question in the beginning just before you introduce yourself to the public and I'm gracing myself for a second into the podcast what's your coffee usually people here in the UA they either go for a cappuccino or a Singlish press was always cappuccino always cappuccino even after noon really Ah that's and I'm married to an Italian so that's Haram that must be difficult to live with h it's okay I tell him deal with it yes so can you please tell me a little bit about you uh how many years you've been in the UAE your business and what is uh your company doing real trust sure uh so laneta ketto is my name I've been here 18 years originally from the US Chicago um my background is technology so I've been in technology for 30 years now as of this month uh and when I arrived into the UAE I focused on Prop Tech which is real say technology that were did not exist when I first arrived um and that is what I have done my entire time here and I started real trust because I saw gaps and pain points in the market when it came to the real estate transaction process um especially when it came to Bringing funds in by International investors and sending funds outbound um and I wanted to really tackle that issue uh by bringing in Digital escro Services what what can you can you please a little bit explain and elaborate what do you mean by Digital escro Services what what is the transaction H how does it work so escro is a concept that doesn't really uh it's not very popular here it's not very commonly known and as a license escro license does not exist here in the UAE um in DFC adgm you have fund managers fun custo fund custodians but it's used for various different reasons but for real estate specifically escrow um is lacking um coming from the us we've been using escro services for over a 100 years uh and um basically is when you send funds into a neutral third party which is the escro account holder and the escro manager funds are held there with a trip party escrow agreement between the buyer the seller and the escrow manager meaning real trust in this uh scenario and then based on that agreement the funds are then dispersed upon successful transfer title so the seller gets his proceeds du buy land Department get their fees the registration trustee get their fees and the real estate agent get their commissions this I understand the the digital part is the one that I need to get cuz this is a Us in the legal field we've been doing this for many years as well and we drafted these kind of contracts and sometimes we even act as escrow as as lawyers maybe not here in the UAE a lot of lawyers still do it uh without the license and treating it as clim money and so on but which is also legal in some way what I need to understand is the digital part in it okay so when a client gets on boarded a buyer we send them an email they click on the link they fill out their kyc form it's a one pager they upload their passport copy and their proof of address this is part of compliance then they will get a link to verify and this is all digital they get a link to verify their face with their government ID and this is done through an international company out of the US um then from there we do a digital uh kyc check on them which is also digitized then they sign the escr terms and condition an escro Tri party agreement digitally then we set up their escrow account digitally within one business day so that entire process from beginning to end the buyer doesn't necessarily have to speak to us everything done is done through that first link that he clicks and initiates and then everything gets Auto triggered after that point once the escro account is open we sent him the wire transfer instructions based on his currency then there's a little bit interaction there because for example if they're transferring Euro to the euro escro account we need to have the conversation with the buyer to say okay you're transferring Euro because it is a foreign exchange escro account as well and we do give really good currency conversion rates so we have the conversation with the buyer to say we can convert your Euros to X today based on the market they agree we get that agreement and then we do the conversion to DAR hams getting ready to send it here right then after that yes after that point unfortunately it's not digital because we're dealing with the various different government entities except for the agent commissions that gets automatically wired to them okay okay I understand this but I would like that you explain it to the audience as well why is it important to have an escrow agent in the middle between uh buyer and seller and agent in a real estate deal you are a third party to the whole deal there's always re estate broker and sometimes two and there is a buyer and seller and in in the middle as well there is a re estate developer who would be involved in some documents and each of these parties get a cut or pay a fee so why is it important to have you as an escrow in the middle rather than just the buyer sending the money across to different parties and save your fee okay so there's many answers to this question and our buyers are international so that also answers a few more but let's start with a very basic and escrow is a neutral third party and we work off of escro instructions to divers to disperse the funds we are not party to the deal and we are not commission driven so we are an unbiased party to the transaction to the buyer the seller the real estate agent for international buyers since they don't have UAE bank accounts they need some form of way to transfer their funds traditionally or how it was done before they were transferred to the real estate brokerage who would then produce a manager check for them on their behalf now in the UAE unless you are regulated out of the IFC or adgm you cannot take third party funds yeah so this is an issue and it's caused many issues to the brokerages they get penalized um they get fined by Dubai land department and then sometimes the bank will freeze their accounts so they the international buyers need a place to send their funds uh this is where we come in in addition let's talk about that 10% security deposit check yeah this Infamous check that you get a picture of you know in a real estate transaction a lot of times the Brokers do not collect the check it's still held by the buyer um in this case with an escro account the buyer has to transfer that 10% that 10% gets held where no one can touch it until the deal is satisfied and then instructions is given what to do with that 10% whether it's transferred back to the buyer or transfer to the seller as part of the proceeds of the deal when you get into a dispute and I cannot tell you how many times because we also do conveyancing I know you know you know well we also do conveyancing and I cannot tell you how many times a deal would come to us and that 10% check is not there and now when it comes time to dispute you you're not going to get it from the buyer and then everything is left up to the court but that's still the same situation for us if a deal goes to Dubai courts we cannot release that 10% until we get instruction from Dubai courts as the esrey holder so there's many reasons why an indiv individual should be using escrow but mainly it is for that International buyer as well as the international seller who doesn't have a UAE bank account here because obviously they cannot collect the manager's check upon transfer of title because they don't have a bank account to put it in so what we do is we have the buyer transfer the funds to our esro account and then we transfer the funds to the seller's escro account yeah yeah yeah I've been involved in in a few reate deals lately and uh I've seen situations where for example the seller has an outstanding payment to the developer for service charges and they ask they don't want to extend that payment until the the deal is actually closed so the buyer actually is paying on behalf of the seller a real estate uh the reate developer a certain amount and then in some cases the deal fall apart because this the seller gets a higher bit from someone else or the reate Brokers get in a conflict together and so on so forth and we have been we have seen situations where this money is held by the seller the property is sold and the buyer remains without a property without security to the deal and a loss of I don't know a million Derham in a deal or something like that so I agree with you very much that escro Services especially in big real estate deals is very very important so we do get a lot of individuals and corporates that come to us in that exact scenario they're looking to buy a property from a seller who's flipping it before uh end of completion and there is a payment that needs to be made the seller doesn't have the funds and they're asking the buyer to to send that payment in order to get the nolc to do the transfer now beforehand like you said it's just pure trust and I don't understand how people can can do that without some kind of a legal document in place so what they do is they transfer the funds to our escro account we hold the funds we show proof of funds to the developer obviously we have to have a conversation with the developer because this is all very brand new what we're doing we just started it this year and uh most developers and uh brokerages are just trying to understand the process um but once we have the conversation with the developers we show them who we are the proof of funds it comes from a legitimate Barclay's bank account which is our escro account they're fine with it um we're doing one in Abu Dhabi it's a very large trans transaction for a custom Villa and that was the scenario and there was millions of Dirhams that was going into this transfer to to pay those that next payment in order to get thec so it is a very common thing for us as well yeah and and in some deals as well there are un um they're they're unregistered brokers in the middle there are a lot of middlemen from here and there who officially cannot get paid through the the the the regular routine so and of course the more people the the less the trust is and having an escrow in the middle creates a lot of trust in the in the deal um can you I don't know uh tell me an example to a complex deal where an escrow service was very important and uh Have Been instrumental in the deal like the one in Abu Dhabi for example that you just mentioned yeah so so that was actually it is a little bit complex uh because it is in Abu Dhabi we do Abu Dhabi and RQ as well in in addition to Dubai so it was in Abu Dhabi it was with a large developer but who doesn't like to assign contracts before Handover and it was it's with a seller who has 30 plus units with this developer mhm so there's conversations to be had there and there was two brokerages involved one that is very has a very good relationship with the developer and one that's representing the buyer who is an overseas buyer fire uh European and we're dealing with the Switzerland family office so as you can imagine there's many conversations with lawyers compliance um between the developers the agent our internal legal magel uh and ourselves just to make sure and and of course there's a payment there uh that needs to be made before the NOC gets uh transferred and that payment is being made by the buyer there is the eser account oh I'm sorry there's also a law firm in Egypt yeah involved involved okay so uh it's a very complex uh process but we're so used to complex when something easy comes to us we kind of look at it as like d it's too easy doesn't add up yeah why are they coming to us it's so easy so that's one very good example of one that we're in currently um also when a lot of times we're dealing with um International corporates so to on board a corporate is a little bit more complex even though it's still digital you still have the corporate documents and then the ubo that has to get um on boarded and then a lot of the times and I don't know if this is normal or not but a lot of the times the the corporate has companies or headquarters or sorry uh divisions in different countries so the funds are being sent from different country bank accounts yes into the escro account so as you can imagine from a compliance perspective everything needs to be checked and everything needs to be signed off of and as I said our escrow account is a barklay escro account out of the UK tier one FCA license regulated fully insured uh so it's really important that we make sure that everything is done proper to safeguard all the parties involved um and then the international sellers that's always a fun one to deal with yes yes yes you mentioned that some of the deals you find a lot of lawyers in it what is your entry point to the deals you usually get referred by law firms to bring you the deals or you get the the the clients from the investor side and then afterwards they involve their lawyers every so uh we get deals from attorneys uh we get deals from the investors themselves who's doing their due diligence and finding us uh we get deals a lot of deals from real estate agents um as I said I've been in the market for 18 years in the real estate space so I know everybody I get referrals from government right so from the registration trustee offices because they Now understand fully what we do so we get a lot of referrals from them and of course past clients right right um I'll I'll take you back a little bit because you mentioned again that you've been in the market for 18 years I would like to know what did you do during these 18 years so walk me through your past professional experience because we would like to learn about it sure so technology prop Tech uh when I arrived in 2006 uh property finder was a magazine du Dubizzle horizontal as always um and Bay you did not exist so there was Zero real estate data I would remember I was actually in JT I was looking for an apartment and I asked and this is when Supply was very low demand was very high and I asked the agent can you tell me what the comparables are give me some data what sold recently but no clue what I was talking about I I remember those days there was Gulf news and there was like the colorcoded listings that we had yeah so when I realized there was no real estate data and coming from the states where we at that time Zillow Trulia they were showing it was very B Toc Centric how they were showing comparable data transaction data on the portals I decided to make that my my mission here um so I started working with du band Department um the first B2B real estate data platform I built was property monitor uh which is still around today uh we made it very agent agent Centric so most of the real estate agents use it um then I went to property finder where I was there for four years and there we build data finder a bunch of BTC tools that's still currently on their website all data driven like house prices how much is your home worth buy versus rent things like that and then uh during that time uh I worked a lot with biland Department because they're the source of Truth for the data so I know that that was the place to go to acquire the best data the most comprehensive data and while a property finder we build Mo aser which is the first official house price index for the city of Dubai which was a very big thing for Dubai and Dubai land Department um and it's still in existence today it gets updated monthly um and then I just continued doing that advising for the government and then I started to advise for the Saudi government for the piff entities so for the real estate government bodies in Saudi uh then when I completed that I always wanted to do real chess I always wanted to bring ESC to to Dubai and to the UAE so decided to do that and that's where I'm at today so I went from data to digitization okay okay what other services real trust do for real estate deals like here in the UAE so we try to be that One-Stop solution for all Real Estate Services because what we find is when an agent is dealing with a client they're referring them to the mortgage broker to someone to do the golden Visa someone for the power of attorney someone for corporate and they're talking to five six different people and it really breaks that cycle and it causes a lot of friction in the relationship so we wanted to create that one stop real estate solution where we do everything and everything we do is inhouse so we do golden Visa setup uh based on the property we do property holding company setups uh we do corporate tax advisory for Real Estate uh Power of Attorney uh we uh do will and Estate Management except brokering so you handled conveyancing for example Handover deals and so on snagging so yeah we do a lot of snagging for the Handover for Off plan evaluations um and that is through a third party partner we wanted it to be RCS certified both the home evaluations and Home Inspections right very interesting yeah so since you've been in the market for more than 18 years as you said you have seen a lot of changes a lot of change in the law a lot of regulations that came uh through from the band Department the establishment of rera you've seen all of this and and uh I think both of us have seen the UAE in in 2008 and the the reate crisis that happened maybe twice uh the when when the market went down the boom that we have here right now um I think the market is started to slow down again the changes in the regulations that were controlled the the flipping of properties the you've seen everything how do you see the real estate market developing from a regulatory perspective and as well as as a reate market for investment how do you see the development going and what do you see in the future as well so Dubai has always been very proactive when it comes to regulations uh that was one of the things that saved us during covid uh we were open for tourism uh a bunch of the new Visa reforms were rolled out during covid um and then we had that significant vshape recovery within the real estate market so I believe that regulations obviously will still be coming through I think uh The Regulators understand that technology is a very big part of what is happening in the world today in addition to here in the UAE and in real estate that's proptech and fintech and I think that they have been or they have shown that they're agile to adapting to Technologies to enhance the market uh Dubai land Department right now is very heavy and pushing prop Tech initiatives and I think that that will have a positive effect on the real estate market in addition to the high net worth individuals that are coming through the corporates that are being established FDI all of that put together which just has always that that's part of our Dream story here in in the UAE uh when it comes to the real estate market the last few years since covid so let's say 2001 but specifically 2022 and 2023 we had a really big influx of Russian and ex-soviet states and a lot of money was poured into the market inflated areas that today we're now starting to see the pinch so we went from a seller's market to a buyer's market so if you look at the real estate data last year average time on Market was 30 days today average time on Market is 90day plus yeah if you also look at the data for the last two consecutive quarters we had declining um prices in both the secondary Market as well as the Off plan Market uh today there's 306,000 units on under construction not launch but under construction yeah um with the majority of them being completed in 2026 over 111,000 now this is going to have a significant impact in the real estate market and you can turn it however you want positive negative depending on what kind of lenses you're looking through uh what type of investor you are if you're a homeowner there's so many ways to have this discussion but the truth of the reality is is that the data doesn't have an opinion and these these units are going to have an impact in the market um today we're seeing uh areas such as Dubai Marina Palm uh jamaa Blue Waters Dubai Creek uh where the prices have been so inflated that the properties are still are just sitting there and you're not able to sell them especially in the luxury market like uh uh like uh the imar project the beach front like beach front um and it's just it's a little bit difficult for certain segments you can't look at Dubai as a whole you need to look at the segments you need to look at the areas um and from an investment perspective you just need to do your homework look at the data whether you're thinking about Roi capital appreciation you know you just need to really understand what is happening because the current amount of units on the construction today will have an impact there is a big relation between the properties in Dubai to the properties in Abu Dhabi and Shara and respective to Ajman and rasaa and other Emirates so in Dubai I would say is the recate market driver in the whole UAE when when Dubai goes down everything goes down with it when Dubai goes up everything goes up with it maybe Abu Dhabi is a bit an island on its own it just has its own metrics and calculations but I would say the northern Emirates are all connected to Dubai how do you see that traditionally it has been um but what we saw or what I think we're going to start to see so Abu Dhabi really has grown over the last two years so last year they had 144% increase in transaction but Abu Dhabi is a very certain type of market for certain type of individuals and I do think and I do see it actually forming into that very high-end luxurious type of Market where people want a slower pace of life and so forth so on Dubai is the market that it's always been now we're seeing russela grow so since the announcement of wi uh Resort uh we've seen that area explode and I truly believe we haven't even seen the beginning of it um I lived in Las Vegas for 8 years before moving here and I've seen what the casinos do to a city and to the infrastructure of a city when the Wind Resort is and I'm I'm not I don't know if this is happening now but at some point when it's completed it's going to be pouring hundreds of millions of d HS into the economy into the rack municipality so they will be growing and they will be improving infrastructure and the rack that we see today we won't recognize in 5 years uh so I believe that that's going to take its own Dynamic and and grow in its own path um when it comes to Shara and andman Shara opened up uh last year was it where they open up to NCC yeah so I do see that that market taken a certain shape and it's always been that um Market where when Dubai got overpriced individuals moved to or for individuals who wanted to have more of a conservative way of life that will also continue to shape so I do see those three Emirates kind of taking their own shape and growing outside of how the DU Market has shaped them before if you want to put it that way right so you see a lot of Separation happening in how the market will will will be driven H Emme will it own I do yeah I do and then once the railway is fully completed that's going to add a whole another dynamic between Abu Dhabi Dubai and Char absolutely because it it will connect the whole country here I would like to ask you since you've been here for 18 years and you've been in the same business what would you like to see as a new regulation or a new rule when it comes to reate transactions or maybe what would you change so that's a very big question and I have many answers for that but I know we have a liit limited amount of time so I would say one of the things that we really could use to improve and enhance the market is exclusivity of listings to real estate brokers uh today uh there is no exclusivity you can have uh 20 Brokers listing the same property and everyone's fighting for that one property the Brokers are fighting with each other the buyers and sellers try to circumvent the Brokers and try to find each other and it's just not a healthy Market um oh definitely here is a brutal Market is very very very tough it is very tough and it doesn't help or serve anybody so it doesn't help the real estate agents it doesn't help the buyer or the seller and it just causes a a very chaotic Market um and I've seen many different real estate markets all over the world um and the exclusive Market is very clean uh you know an agent get exclusive exclusivity based on where they're located so for example in Dubai for 2 months or 3 months um they spend their money to advertise the property they have an uh initiative to do so there's a reason why they're spending their money versus today where they could be spending their money and then someone else can be selling it selling that property the problem in this regard is that I see a lot of forms when the broker deal the brokerage firm deal with the investor directly that they give them an option whether exclusive or not and when it's exclusive they say okay we will do the shooting we'll do the video we'll do the advertising for the property and in some options not what happened in reality is that even if they agree with the investor on the exclusivity the investor sometimes break the rule or break the agreement between them and when it goes to a conflict or many brokerage firm they say we will just delist the property we will not go ahead and file a case or take our exclusivity back on the property because on a practicality it is not there is no exclusivity in the market no and I can sign an exclusive agreement today with a broker and cancel it tomorrow yes I can sign exclusivity today and sell it with another broker and that exclusive form and that commission that broker would have to try to fight me in court and that broker would have to bear the cost of the lawyer and the court fees which is very expensive which is very expensive unfortunately we also have to make money and it can go on for years it can go on for years so it's it's something that I think will really help clean up the market right um and then of course it will give the opportunity to bring in a multiple listing service an MLs um there's been a lot of talk about MLS coming into the market um and unfortunately it doesn't work unless you have an exclusive Market if you do have an exclusive Market a platform like an MLs that all the Brokers list their properties to they find their properties you know who the listing agent is you're the buyer agent you're bringing the client very clean very straightforward then you can even digitize that process and make an enhance the real estate Journey for the buyer and the seller uh so I would say that that's probably the one that if I had to pick of the many that would be the one that I would focus on it would be exclusivity for agents yeah yeah it's part of enhancing the the the whole Market uh honestly because both of us we've been in the market when there were a lot of fake deals listed online when there was um brokers who do not have the license to practice uh re estate brokerage or listing properties online and it was kind of an open space for uh fraud as well there was a lot of cases that we have seen in the recent market so this development so I guess with this as an additional Point could help the market go into a a good place one thing that I would advise on and maybe take your opinion on that in my personal opinion there's a lot of wrong information and wrong knowledge given by the Brokers to the investors and to the landlords and there is the training for the Brokers and people stakeholders in this business is very important it is not happening enough and there's a lot of misinformation happening and being given in the market and a lot of even Legal Information that is passed by the brokerage firms into the the the the market to the to the landlords or to the buyers and sellers in in deals that falls to to us later on as as conflicts yeah that's that's a very big problem and that problem has been around for as long as I've been here um there used to be dii which was part of dld and then in 2019 it got dissolved and today as a real estate agent you just go you pay for your rearer license you take a test which everybody has a copy of and and you become a broker uh in the states for example depending on the state the courses is anywhere from 3 months to 9 months yeah and it's multiple courses so you have your brokerage course you have your legal course you have your ethics course and then you have to take an exam yeah all for for each course definitely education I think that like you said there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding the rental laws or how to buy how to sell I think it's really important that the investors uh are are really do their proper due diligence um I'm always trying to put information out there to educate the market and put dat especially data that's that's what I do and I always say to everyone if I say the population grew by 100,000 every year since covid go to Dubai statistics Center and verify that what I said is correct because that 100,000 I've heard 200 250,000 I've heard so many different numbers by individuals on podcast or just online and it's not true so there are sources to to properly check uh the information it's just it's not very good here yet um and yeah there there's a lot of improvement that that we can have I see du land Department together with with the government in in the UAE in general are making a lot of sources for information regarding the deals themselves regarding verifying the title deed if it's genuine or not and and so on so forth do you think this can be also enhanced or is it enough but the people need to be educated how to look for the information people need to be educated so it's enough yeah I think what Dubai land department has done is Exemplar compared to how fast they've done it yeah when I arrived raro wasn't existing and now we have all these tools like Dubai rest and you have the portals for Brokers where they can do their due diligence uh we actually had a case the other day when it came so uh it was a mortgage buyer signed the the final offer letter ready to go transfer and there was a block on a property by Dubai courts that should have been caught because you technically you technically can't do form a b or even form F without that being caught but uh it did it was sitting in uh in the cycle for many many months I believe it was like five months that it was sitting there so at some point in that cycle that block was put and the agent didn't check so now the bank and of course we we we get all the lovely cases the bank is now going after the buyer who cannot who can no longer buy this property and making him liable for this mortgage wow okay so the bank didn't check as well was a problem the checks are there you can check if there's a block on the property Bank didn't check when they had that final offer letter signed the broker didn't check prior to closing and when they went to close at the registration trustee there's a block from Dubai courts because the seller owns a significant amount of money to many different entities including service fees wow so I'm going to talk about one of the cases that we recently won at court and this case the conflict itself could have been completely avoided if there was an escrow agent in the middle and uh someone who can help get the deal done we had a a buyer who is motivated to buy an apartment and the amount was agreed and the form F was signed between the buyer and seller however because a seller had outstanding service charges with the developer he asked the buyer to pay this amount and it was over a million Dirham so the buyer paid on behalf of the seller a million Durham to the developer and the seller on the day of transfer he basically faked that he is sick and it was one or two days before the lapse of the 30 days period of the uh form F the mou and he sent an email that I was ready to do the transfer and I was at the transfer uh Office of the registered trustee and you didn't show up so there was a lot of Correspondence here and there and the seller basically escaped closing the deal attacking the buyer of not fulfilling the um obligations or bringing the check or whatever so just trying to escape the transfer days and later on he said the period of 30 days of the um that was mentioned in the form F lapsed now I'm free and I can sell it to someone else one week later the deal was closed with another buyer for a another amount that is almost 700,000 Dirham extra in the deal and the seller who received on his behalf a million Derham of service charge for free from the buyer refused to close the deal and refused to return back the money and basically was trying to Strongarm them into getting a settlement of a 200,000 Dirham and just forget about the million Dirham and the loss that they made long story short after a battle in court for more than a year we won the case we got back the money we got back even the difference in the amounts between the buyer and seller because that's profit that my client was supposed to to make but he couldn't but unfortunately it took more than a year in court to to have it uh but it is what it is and my client of course is is down with a bit of uh legal fees and uh frustration and all of this I would assume if there is an escrow agent in the middle who is able to receive this million Dam do the deal and um lock it in a proper way that's really deal would have been uh much smoother without a conflict in court and so on yeah we we get these all the time after so when they're in trouble yeah um because like I said our concept is is new here uh people are just trying are trying and understanding what we're doing so I can't tell you how many very similar like this um they end up going to court like you said for over a year and you're lucky because you're client was able to get the funds back from the seller if the seller didn't have the funds a travel ban will be put on them maybe in a resta warrant but or okay maybe if they had other properties you yeah of course you know but it's very difficult it's very very difficult and with Escrow in the very beginning funds get transferred to the escro account the millions held in reserve for the developer you show the developer proof of funds we do this all the time and then upon transfer we transfer all the funds we are a neutral third party not party to the deal so it's it's very easy we follow instructions we disperse um so yeah we we see this all the time and there was one and I felt very very bad for the seller to make a very long story short he had already ended up paying over 40 it was like a more than 40% of the amount that the buyer was claiming against him in legal fees okay and it was a very small amount so we're not talking about Millions we're talking about a small am amount and he just started the court process so imagine how that's going to look for him in a few months and it's to try to protect himself yes form F was not done properly the addendum was not done properly there was no conveyancing which is why we're big strong you know component for conveyancing to make sure that everything is done properly and this is how that seller got put in into that position but we see it every day all day long and this is all I can do is just try to go out and educate as much as I can through podcasts and social media and things like that but the service is here and it's it's very cost effective it's not expensive thank you so much for coming thank you so much for all the information you're giving us I believe your services and expertise are very important and essential for this market and we as lawyers we are happy to deal and to be in cooperation and in partnership with companies like yours because basically you help us and you help our contracts to actually come in reality in an easy manner thank you thank you so much it was such a lovely conversation I I know we can continue and continue so look forward to the next one thank you very much for coming so um thank you very much for watching and this is your dose from Monday legal see you next week