[Music] good morning I'm Ahmed Elnaggar and this is Monday Legal my guest for today is Akshata Namjoshii from Karm legal one of the pioneers of her practice in the region and for this I am very thrilled and happy to invite you today a thank you Ed thank you so much for having me today thank you for coming and I would like to hear from you about your legal background and if you can introduce yourself a little bit to us thank you I'm a partner with K legal and I also the head of the payments practice at the firm I started my career in India with amaran Mangal Das I was uh I I I did my bachelor's in India and then I did my M's from n Singapore um after a couple of years U of very traditional corporate commercial practice I thought probably it was time to explore an international market uh so I looked towards Dubai I came and I joined a local Law Firm here but soon I kind of realized that probably my calling is more in Tech um after having work for about four years in cop commercial at that point I I thought probably it was a good idea to explore something in crypto in fintech and um luckily uh the founder of K that time was planning to set up her own practice and that's how happened I was one of the first members uh one of the first founding members to join the team and um haven't looked back since then it's been what six years now I know very well we were talking about you're talking about kukila yes is also very prominent name in the in this industry for many years with the she started Karm and I think you are one of the founding members of this Law Firm how big is your firm now um so we uh we are about uh 22 or 23 of us now started with just three or four members at that point of time and uh the market has been kind to us uh we've been able to get uh lawyers from some of the best jurisdictions with some great experience uh both in technology and uh traditional corporate commercial laws so yeah uh very well your name is quite attached to crypto and blockchain and the regulations at the early stages tell us about this journey I mean since you started uh with with Kila I founded Karm and um your name is associated with this industry tell us how did it change for the last few years right um no in fact you're absolutely right uh initially we started focusing a lot on crypto uh happened very organically for us we entered the market at a point in time where when there were no regulations Regulators were still sort of grappling trying to understand how to regulate crypto as a sector um there was a lot of interest in the investment Market um so we got a lot of clients who were looking at investing in these opportunities uh there were a lot of use cases tokenization was booming at that point of time be it tourism be it Healthcare uh be it real estate people were exploring how to potentially leverage tokenization for for uh better opportunities and uh we were at the cusp of all of this we were we were the lawyers who were trying to understand how to help clients best self-regulate uh we were also working with Regulators at that point of time having regular consultations supporting them in in developing laws so that that Journey happened for us very organically I always like to say we grew with the law and law grew with us right um then we had a natural you know sort of progression towards payments which I now majorly oversee uh we we ended up dealing with some of the leading payment service providers both in the region and globally um so Yap and tell for instance have been our clients U globally P and D local have been our clients we also got the opportunity to work with some of the central banks in supporting them and drafting regulations on payments so I think our journey has included a lot you know a lot of tapping into the sectors which are Niche which are upcoming there's there's there's a bit of gray initially and that kind of sort of matures into a more regulated more nuanced sector from there and I think that's been our journey both in crypto and payments and uh you know we we are looking forward to now the merger of crypto payments so that's an exciting space we are looking forward to as well exactly you mentioned that you've been working with central banks so you didn't talk you don't mean UAE only Central Bank you mean that you have done it in in this region the region yes which country in the region have been early on to adopt these regulations to to answer your first question yes we've been working with central banks in the region predominantly helping them developing fintech regulations understanding what globally the other Regulators have done as we speak I think UAE and S have been at the Forefront uh but at the same time bahin has done fantastically well when it comes to developing regulations and and om man is very aggressive in the whole of ftech sector right now um so honestly between these four jurisdictions with of course support from you know adjoining countries there are a lot of options that fex have today U Middle East is like really ripe right now for fintex to expand um there are enough and more use cases unbanked and banked population is starting to mature so that they can start using these uh fintech Solutions better so there's a lot happening in this space and I would definitely say that both Central Bank of UA and Saudi Arabia are are definitely leading this wow so you're saying that regionally the UAE Saudi Oman and Bahrain have been doing significant work what about globally who are the leaders in the fintech and these regulations I mean from the government level regulating these areas um so there there are a lot of learnings which come from um psd2 and psd3 this is the payment services directive from EU uh there's a lot of Juris Prudence that uh not not just in Middle East but globally The Regulators have sort of relied on uh obviously there are many jurisdictions many countries in EU which are trying and testing every update that comes with psd2 and psd3 in addition to that definitely Hong Kong and Singapore have done phenomenally well when it comes to payments Mass Singapore and the hkma have very uh robust regulations to regulate what fex are doing so there are a lot of learnings from there as well in fact when we work with central banks uh we make it a point to look at Global learnings uh Global red flags and what are the lessons that each of the jurisdictions have learned and gone through uh It's always important to understand what are the areas of problem that each regulator may have gone through and there are there are enough and more options and there are enough and more solutions which are available if research was to be put into it with with this kind of comparison that you're doing all the time because you're going to be reading and following up with all the new legislations worldwide together with whatever is happening here in the Middle East and specifically in the UAE I can imagine that you get a lot of requests from entrepreneurs and Founders who want to go into the payment or the fintech uh Industries and they ask you which is the best jurisdiction so do you always advise the UAE or in some cases you advise your clients to go and establish somewhere else honestly we have always been loyal to UA right we we are a homegrown uh you know homebred law firm uh the market has given us the opportunity as expats to come and set up here so we definitely ensure to help uh you UA and the region but yes what has definitely gone in our favor and what what that's that's something that the clients have always appreciated about us is that uh because of our understanding of global regulations it becomes very easy for us to map the strategy out for them so we understand potentially let's say what an Emi in UK today is doing and what are the potential options available from for them in UA in KSA in bahin giving them the vision and giving them the strategy for Market entry is also one of the key contribut factors that our our clients have recognized uh that we've been able to support them with and I can imagine your advice will even extend to where to go next for example if they are homegrown start up here as you say and they they start in the U as a base and then I I believe Saudi Egypt Bahrain and and maybe India Pakistan uh would would be their next uh step this is something that you also direct them to do absolutely absolutely and in fact I'll I'll I'll definitely share some personal experience in this regard very big factor in this comes uh where where it comes is that Regulators are exceptionally supportive in the Middle East right very comfortable for me for example to pretty much write to any of The Regulators be the Central Bank of U or the dfsa or the fsra or even Sama to write to them introduce the project understand what their expectations are and even understand the Readiness and there have been instances where The Regulators have been very honest with us and they've said that okay listen in the project 70% part of it is what we today have regulations for but the 30% is something that we developing regulations so if you want to suggest your client to take it in a phased manner that's okay we can you know look at regulating them after let's say 2 years or 3 years we developing regulations we're exploring and understanding how the market Works let's say X part of it is what we can regulate today I I of course speak to a lot of uh my lawyer friends from other jurisdictions you know in in in other uh countries they don't they don't share this that experience that's that's very unique to the region and I think that's phenomenal because I think the approach is exactly the opposite in in other region they just wait for one mistake to put you under the the the the the I don't know on fire that you're doing something a little bit out of scope of what is the regulation is allowing you so that's something that the UAE or as you said the Middle East in in general have been trying to um help entrepreneurs in in this regard absolutely absolutely and um that's where that's why it's also been very rewarding for us to be in the middle as as somebody who's also talking to The Regulators who's also supporting uh the finex in expanding because we can then bridge the gap between law and Innovation and that's that's gone in our favor greatly uh we have of course you know supported many of the clients not only from the region but uh in I think in the last 2 years we have Diversified in various jurisdictions and and countries with our support to to all the finex so we have somebody from us we have somebody from UK we have somebody who's based in Hong Kong and Singapore and these are all maure markets these are all markets which have proper regulations yet they're looking at Middle East as you know the next step you know I have the feeling that right now every application is a fch it doesn't matter what they started to do like you see an aggregator for food or aggregator for sport supplies or they all fct even technology companies are becoming a ftech Ab so what is why is it happening what I mean I think it's out of convenience for serving the customers all the apps are becoming super apps and the number one uh enabler for any app to become super app is to have a fintech uh element in it absolutely absolutely and you're absolutely right um I think during the pandemic everyone kind of realized that they need more Super apps and and being a super app is a viable option like we saw the kind of you know uh the Skyrocket increase in Amazon's shares and Amazon's earnings U super apps are all the rage right now everyone is wanting to become super apps of course one of the elements of it is Payment Processing you cannot potentially be a super app unless you don't have the proper payment processing mechanism tell us a little bit about how that work works like for example I understand very well the e-commerce concept and if there is Amazon as you said or I don't know um an app or a website that is providing uh services for telecommunication industry I know for a fact that there's so many so big difference between creating a store for selling garments and processing payments and storing value in in gift cards and so on how does all these licenses for under one operation and the regulation behind it how do you manage that right right um right so that and that's why the law even in within UA is absolutely beautiful right because um the way law looks at it is that are you payment intermediary are you fitting somewhere in where you're handling client funds passing it on to a merchant passing it on to suppliers um you know storing it in a wallet so that a user can come back and use it on the app the law makes a Distinction on where is it that you're fitting in this entire Spectrum if you are purely an intermediary who's just transacting funds uh you know you're potentially just looking at fund transfer kind of services if you're acquiring for a merchant uh then you are doing Merchant acquiring or payment aggregation if you are purely facilitating a a wallet or a store of value where uh users can store their funds and use it as and how they deem necessary then you're looking at something like a stored value facility law remains technology agnostic law will probably not look at what ultimately the service the user is getting so far as the payments regulations is concerned law will look at what is it that in the payment spectrum that you're doing and very interesting that you bring up a lot of e-commerce platforms because probably eight or 9 years ago e-commerce platforms were uh processing and hand payments and handling funds and you know there was there was not much scrutiny around that but that's changed now so pretty much every large e-commerce player that you see today has some of the other kind of approval or licenses or at least they're in the process of it of handling the kind of funds and payments that they do because the prime concern of a monetary regulator is if you're handling client funds then you come under my radar and my jurisdiction for me to regulate you yeah I I think this is also extending to entertainment to games for example you know I my my children are playing video games where they have um currency inside the game so they have to buy these coins be able to buy skin or to get some abilities and so on and I I see this and I feel like wow that's that's fch it's not a game anymore something not the not like the games during the time I was a teenager or even a child it's it's completely different right now games are fintex absolutely and and it's beautiful that you you brought that up because uh we have also done quite a bit of advisory for such games which are trying to expand in the market so you you're right when you suggest that the in-game tokens are ultimately some of the other form of currency right and there's a huge element which comes in in in these games to understand whether it's a game of skill or whether it's a game of chance most games of chances are uh banned or heavy heavily regulated in jurisdiction we'll come to that in a different question because this is a very interesting topic yeah so um ultimately if something forms a currency for me something that I can withdraw or cash out then there's a huge element of payments regul that might get triggered in this I think even regulations have to follow because right now I see my children is 8 years old for example and and his friends and they come to to the house to play to with each other they all ask each each other how many you know the the coins or whatever the the currency inside the game what each one of them have and in order to have these coins you have to purchase them by credit card which is connect Ed to the ID that is connected to the device which goes to the father of course as usual so it is a money that is been traded between these players so I can imagine that there is an element of monitoring that must be happening and the regulations Behind these games is not just a a consent to use or a consent of age or uh there must be some control in it have you seen the regulations up to that speed so the regulations are coming up uh we we have um the gdfr if I'm not wrong uh the gaming Authority which is coming up and we are aware that the regulations are being developed but like you brightly mentioned within a singular game there are three or four elements which are at play at the same time right there's an element of game in itself of what kind kind of game it is is it something that can be exposed to the minus or not so there are specific regulations under let's say the civil code and other um relevant regulations in UAE but there's also an element of payments and fintech of of what are the coins which are getting used in the game whether the coins remain within the game ecosystem or whether there's a potential for those coins to be redeemed and withdrawn for cash so there's a huge legal element there and then of course the third element is actually the payment processing part that how do you make payments for it what is the subscription model so there's within within one small game probably that uh that's available in the market today there's about four or five legal elements that need to be looked that before theg game can actually go live yeah so as you are an expert in this field where are we with the Central Bank regulations in terms of all the regulations that covers all the technology and fintech uh sphere what what do you think are the development that is happening and what is the next step um so Central Bank of UA actually is um one of the Pioneers definitely when it comes to the regulations in fintech um 2020 end of 2020 beginning of of 21 is is when you know everything changed in terms of regulations cbua introduced what we call today the retail payment services and card schemes regulations that was mainly focused on the retail payment services the the options that today are available for the retail clients to use in terms of fex then there was a regulation for stored value facilities so my watch today which can store funds my uh Wallets on on my phone which in store funds prepaid cards gift cards potentially every device which can store value got covered under that cut to 2023 Central Bank of UA launched the regulations for restricted finance companies more catering toward uh pay later services so we as you'd be aware we already had the regulations for finance companies in UA but an offshoot of that was the restricted finance companies which are now supporting bmls and other pay lator services to obtain relevant licenses earlier this year the CB launched regulations for open finance so now uh whenever it is anything to do with open banking or open finance gets covered under under that and there's also an a recent announcement that CBU is looking at launching the payment token regulations so there's a lot happening in the fintech sector right now it's it's a very Dynamic space and it's been the case for the last 3 years it's it's very exciting and at the same time it's it's also very interesting to you know keep up to date with everything that's happening and this is of course in addition to the FSR ad GM and dfsa in DFC they have had providing Money Services and Money Services business for the last 3 or 4 years so many of the leading fex um in the region are also housed with these Financial uh Regulators so I always like to say that UA is a is a country it's it's it's a jurisdiction where you get three Regulators within the sphere of 200 kilom so it's it's literally if I don't have an option of getting license with one regulator I can move on and I can check if the other regulator has an option and I will almost always find an answer within UA itself yes yes I've seen adgm trying to Pioneer a few services and starting a little bit earlier than thefc and Central Bank in some other occasions thefc was uh doing it earlier but I will go back to one of the uh regulations that you mentioned and I will uh ask you a very tough question bmpl it was operating as a business for quite a while before the regulations come into play right how how how how was it regulated how was it operating I did not really understand a lot of B buy out pay later companies were operating had huge funds and they did several rounds of Investments without regulations and it's not only here I think it's was here in Egypt and Saudi and none of these countries had regulations for it and these companies were operating absolutely and you're absolutely right um bmpl were and not only they were they they have been in the market for like a really really long time honestly they've been around definitely for the last 6 or seven years yeah most of these entities what they were essentially doing is they were they were extending small micro loans on their own account and the repayment was staggered between let's say 4 months or five months or 6 months and this was mostly tied in with the e-commerce players which you obviously today see example in the market as well eventually what happened is that the regulator started kind of realizing that okay wait a minute this is ultimately credit this is ultimately an entity extending a credit line why should I not regulate it as credit and and we in fact ended up doing an entire study on this we have recently launched a report uh which is a comparative assessment of of bmpl regulations and of course other fintech regulations in around six jurisdictions what we kind of realized during our study and research was that pretty much every industry came back with an argument but we're not exactly doing a credit function because what we're extending is is very you know small term loans or let's say small term payments or micro payments on behalf of the customers so that they can buy a retail product uh there was a tussle there was industry feedback there was what uh the opinions that Regulators had so on and so forth and that's how the offshoots that today we see in form of restricted finance companies came through where um the regulations are not as heavy or as demanding as they would be on a traditional Finance company which say is going to sponsor your car loan or your asset which you're going to buy but which also has the similar oversight as they would do in case of a credit line so there are very strict uh regulations to determine what exactly can fall under the category of restricted finance companies it should be within a period of 12 months um it should be for smaller loans let's say within 20,000 dhams um the repayment mechanism cannot be as as it potentially is let's say for the finance companies usually in in such cases there is no collateralization of any of the assets so there's an entire distinction that's been carved out under the entire umbrella of credit line um and interesting that you bring this up because uh not in UA but many of the bnpl in UK in EU um as recently as last week in Australia have suffered the brunt of you know not planning let's say the the finances well some of them have gone under liquidation some of them have faced extreme regulatory fines so there's a lot definitely that's going around in in different parts of the world that um you know the region can learn from on the same business I believe you're not only working with the regulatory but you're also working with the businesses themselves so you're advising them on on the contracts on on their uh expansion um as I said even before the regulation come come in place for the buy now pay later uh uh businesses they they went to through they went through a a few rounds of investment and some of them are in a billion dollar size like in Saudi and and even here and I think in Egypt as well they they're quite huge where do you advise them I mean what which areas do you help these kind of uh startups um so we actually advise them from an absolute seat stage till they go life right uh of course the kind of advice and the kind of support changes depending on what stage they are at if it's a youngster startup then what are potentially the market entry strategies that from a legal perspective that they should be looking at uh what are the kind of regulations that could impact them many of the startups today are also taking the route of uh collaborating with bigger players uh that's definitely an area where we sort of support them from u a legal perspective on how to go about uh the collaboration of the relationship in itself what is the kind of obligation that should rest on the fintech and what is the kind of obligation that should rest on let's say you know licensed entity like a bank or a financial institution that's definitely an area where we support with bigger players of course who have been already existent in the other markets how best they can expand into the UA Market what is it that the actual operations going to look like from a legal perspective as compared to what they currently have in other parts of the world is also primarily an area that we advise on and of course at the end of all of this if they need to obtain licenses from The Regulators that's definitely an area where we come into play Just of course first to add on to that with all of these backing the collaborations or backing any of the you know engagements up with the contractual necessary contractual means is also an area where we support I've seen a lot of challenges with these collaborations because when when you come as a startup with a new idea I I don't think the regulated Banks or financial institutions in general um I'm not talking about the the government side I'm talking about the private side which is financial services they they don't take these fexs with an open arm they don't accept them immediately they want to you know there are some kind of challenges when it comes to um accepting them and embedding them into the system and in many occasions I see that they kind of like the idea and they do it themselves they don't really have to uh to to to sign with a new fentech or a new startup to do the the business have you seen something many of them actually and luckily for us we have advised both so we have been on the side of the bank also which is trying to tie up with the fintech and we've been on the side of fintex also in some cases which is trying to tie up with a bank or a financial institution um see a lot of this also has to do with the kind of the way law evolved before let's say 2020 2018 a large part of it was more of a you know a protectionist kind of strategy where it was all housed with the banks a financial institutions and you know there there was a limited scope for fintex to actually come in and obtain licenses around 2020 everything changed after especially in and around pandemic there were a lot of options that opened up for the fex there's there Still Remains let's say uh a conversation in the market on what part of of the services is it that a bank or a financial institution is outsourcing to the fex because ultimately the bank or an fi is the one which is you know answerable to the Central Bank of UA or the financial regulator that's regulating them so there's there's a tussle on both the sides because the technology is then let's say managed developed and housed by the fintech but the ultimate party which is answerable in case of a collaboration to the regulator is the C is is the bank or the financial institution so usually navigating this entire um you know scheme of things from a legal perspectives is where we come in and I'm sure many lawyers such as ourselves also support in uh this direction yeah I mean there's a big element of um of of fear when it comes to these kind of collaborations because of the data protection the security the confidentiality especially when the fintech get integration automatically with service providers as a bank or a financial entity there they are afraid to to to come into such partnership and lose data or jeopardize the confidential information of their customers and as you said to be the one who will be very heavily with the central bank so that's quite a tremendous change in the all of this is also financial data right this is this is sensitive data of the customers of their finances of their accounts their payment accounts their credit cards so all of this is also extremely uh crucial for the regulators and also the banks and financial institutions in fact data is a is an area where the most the maximum amount of discussions happen in in such tie-ups because of course everyone wants to retain the client information because they want to retain the client but then ultimately who's the one answerable sort of you know determines everything on how this TI up could work with with let's say with the speed of things happening and I'm I'm pretty sure that the regulations are trying to catch up I still feel that big enablers to the whole industry was the banks because they took the risk to accept these startups and to accept the fintex by integrating them into the system because if they have resisted this kind of development uh I don't think the fintech industry would have flourished that much indeed indeed um and U in fact this is um this is a wave that not just UA but globally many jurisdictions went through at their own speed at their own time um the subcontinent for example with the amount of under underbanked population it had went through the entire cycle of fintex literally taking over the market right um there were many Solutions which came up where the banks started cooperating with fintex to reach the smallest of villages in in uh in these countries and that kind of gave fintex a lot of boost you know to be able to provide the Solutions in the market um similarly in in more sophisticated jurisdictions as the bigger players started coming in they started needing better banking channels better options for them to um do crossborder transactions and that kind of LED you know an entire collaboration an entire scheme of things between Bank and fintex so it's I mean 100 years from now when somebody looks back and they'll be like yeah all of this made a lot of sense this was this was bound to happen it feels you know sporadic or haphazard once in a while while we are living it but uh it's going to make a lot of sense when we turn around and see 100 years from now where Banks and fex would have assimilated so much that we will potentially not have the kind of Distinction that we have today between between Banks and yes yes and we're seeing also a big wave of development in banks with the applying new technology and new accesses and and and new style for dealing with with with their services as well like uh I I don't remember when was the last time I went to the bank honestly exactly um there with with the applications with the technology uh assisting the banking systems and one of the banks I deal with right now without mentioning names is is a completely uh digital bank they don't even have a branch and I'm dealing with them for more than a year right now and uh it's it's working perfect and I absolutely absolutely and that's I think I think that's going to be the case uh more and more from here because just with the of course with the amount of uh banking needs that one has but also at the same time the amount of international transactions people have started having right um all of us order things from International websites when you cannot probably find what you're looking for in let's say in UA or wherever you are uh probably a lot of uh people have started investing in you know etoro and zeras and you know International Investment markets that has that has given rise to a need for for such ftech solutions to come into place and uh let's say every passing second they're trying to make it more and more seamless because if if it takes me a long time to create an account on eor or it takes me a long time to plus it takes me a longer time to create an account on the ftech I'm probably going to lose interest so all of them are trying their level best to make that process extremely seamless and faster now I'm going to take you to one of the most controversial uh topics about the regulations surrounding the companies that are offering a chance to win like if you buy something with a chance to win we all know that you can go to the mall for example and you buy some stuff or even the gas station and they give you some coupons based on the amount of you purchase if you scratch it maybe you win but there's a new trend of companies who basically are selling you products and the main purpose of buying these products is not the product itself is the chance to win something or to have a draw every month and this draw will allow you to win a prize or even sometimes just sum of money what are the regulations governing these companies right uh no definitely a very interesting area which uh is is evolving as we speak um and and I'm pretty sure that the Regulators are doing their part to come up with regulations specific regulations on these I wouldn't commment specifically on any of the players in the market today I'm hoping they're they're doing uh what they're doing with the relevant approvals but from a legal perspective what I can tell you is that uh there are definitely you know legal principles surrounding it the civil code in UA has enough and more guidance on potentially what could be looked at as a game of skill versus a game of chance if you can sort of steer away from that and if you are not falling into sector of chance then you you know potentially have uh the capacity to legally run such operations but at the same time uh the kind of draws and you know the win based games that we see um ideally they're also expected to have approval from the authorities uh to ensure that none of the activities that they're conducting are going against the principles of sharia are not going against the laws of the country countries uh law of the jurisdiction um there's there's also uh an assessment to be had on the time period for which um such draws will be made available typically uh the approvals that we have at least seen are are limited to a certain time period let's say 3 months or 6 months so there's also a a process behind all of this as we currently understand it's slightly it's slightly sporadic of course but um and I know it's monitored as well I mean there is a lot of involvement of the The Economic Department and Department into element and one of the officials attend these draws to make of the transparency and its actual draws it's not just uh directed I understand the draw part is regulated but what what about the licensing part is is regulated as trading companies or it depends from one business to the other so for Pure gaming based games um U gaming based uh projects uh there are some free zones today in UA which have those options so if if you if you are in the gaming sector let's say you know sports or if it is like we had a surge in the football based games um with FIFA around the corner um so there are options for such games and there are options for such projects and like I said the law is fairly clear that um if ultimately you know you're not making a person lose money or if you're not making them invest with proposition of you know a random win or nothing that skill-based then po potentially that could be banned or that could fall under the area of gambling but so far as it's a game it's purely based on a skill it's purely for the entertainment purposes yes there are there are options and honestly um this is at par and in line with what Global Juris Prudence is also today um so globally The Regulators have taken a similar stance and uh UA has has let's say you know followed the suit in the same so the buzzword that everybody else is talking about right now is AI how is AI um affecting your practice and if you think that they must be regulated in sense that it is intersecting a lot with the technology and fintech companies um yeah definitely AI is impacting a lot of sectors not just fintech right now um in fact I I'd like to use a more positive word it's not impacting it's really enhancing the user experience it had its own share of struggles uh we've all dealt with the AI bot which has been on our banking channels but uh now it's becoming definitely much better there's there's AI in every sector that you can potentially think of today there's definitely AI in fintech um you know Rob advisors have been around for for a while now there's AI in healthcare there's there's AI in Investments definitely all the sectors are seeing a surge in use of of AI based Solutions EU being the front runner has come out with the AI act and I'm I'm really be hopeful that other Regulators are going to follow the same because it's absolutely important to understand and regulate what ultimate impact is there on the user from of course whatever products they're using be it Financial Services be it uh Healthcare products but also at the same time what is uh what is the entire impact or what is the entire ethic behind building that AI right so that's why we have seen a lot of different Regulators have come out with the AI ethics codes including UAE um but yes it's an evolving sector we are yet to see how exactly The Regulators are going to have one uniform approach on regulating AI because that's something that definitely needs to be discussed so far as yes separate sectors are concerned there is there is enough and more conversation that Financial Regulators are at least having to see how the AI is going to impact the fintech sector so for instance there there could be more discussion or more you know engagement from a regulator from a liability perspective or from a consumer protection perspective data perspective all those those things are of course naturally getting covered where AI has seeped in but AI in in in its independence we are yet to see how Regulators are going to best tackle that well we'll see how the future will uh bring and uh how the government and the Regulators will put AI regulations as they are doing amazing work with the fintech uh regulations at the moment and thank you very much for coming and being with us thank you so much ammed for having me it was it was a pleasure to speak to you today thank you this is those from Monday legal see you next week